Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Orthodynamic Roundup
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 1406

post #21076 of 23660

Oh for the days of cardboard egg containers. 

 

I was actually thinking of spray on expanding insulation foam and using some irregular object to jam in it as a mold to give some irregularity. Anyone ever tried the spray foam?
 

post #21077 of 23660

I suppose you could line the entire cup bottom of your choice with saran/plastic food wrap then spray the stuff in ( spray foams ) and get the exact shape for the fit, then carve away whatever you didn't want or to whichever shape you want. Might work.  The outside of that stuff is usually shiny after it dries if i recall, but I forget what the insides are like after you get past the outer layer. Might be nicely full of cavities.

Cadbury Crunchie style holes. There I go again with the Crunchies what's up with that.

 

Something using the rough handmade large-fibre paper sheets in an accordian fold might do the trick also, never did try that.

 I ripped apart a respirator filter ( got charcoal everywhere ) and extracted a circular accordian-style disc made from very soft and delicate  paper fibres that looks like an interesting possibility which is why I thought about the handmade papers. A lot cheaper .

Just throwing it out there.

 

GREQ: can you take a picture of the front side of those 2 headphones from the baffle/ear side views please when you feel like it.

 

I am curious . Also do they have a whitish cover over the driver on that side also?

 

And thanks for taking the time to post pics and your experiments so far with them.

I forget if you ever found out what the impedances are for the drivers?

And is the other one also strange with the offset holes when you look through them?


Edited by nick n - 2/11/13 at 6:19pm
post #21078 of 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neogeo333 View Post

I believe he's reserve price is 900 euros.  Still crazy price, one might get and HE-6 or HD-800 for that amount. 


Reserve price was 500€, and it went for $1.3K...hoochie mama!  "From now on, I am breaking all the rules, because desperate men do desperate deeds" as they said in one of my top 5 fav movies(Revolverhappy_face1.gif

post #21079 of 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

Oh for the days of cardboard egg containers. 

 

I was actually thinking of spray on expanding insulation foam and using some irregular object to jam in it as a mold to give some irregularity. Anyone ever tried the spray foam?
 

It's messy stuff to work with, but it's pretty easy to cut/carve afterwards. Those cans are one shot deals though. So you're pretty much wasting the whole can unless you have some household use for it afterwards. 

 

Either way, I don't think you'd want to eat up all the space in the cup... but it would offer a unique opportunity to explore the effect of cup volume on the drivers. Fill it up, test it, spoon some out, test again, repeat. 

 

I've read comments in a few places that cup size/shape doesn't really matter that much; it's the volume that matters more. Anyone have comments on that? I can see that point from the bass perspective (particularly for anything below the Helmholtz resonance). For the treble I'm not so sure... as I've read that some consider treble as direct reflections off the surfaces, while a few other spots have said that for such small enclosures you actually treat the chamber as a uniform pressure source. Hmm. blink.gif

 

(sorry I can't actually quote the sources; these are just the bits and pieces of memory floating in my head)

post #21080 of 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

It's messy stuff to work with, but it's pretty easy to cut/carve afterwards. Those cans are one shot deals though. So you're pretty much wasting the whole can unless you have some household use for it afterwards. 

 

Either way, I don't think you'd want to eat up all the space in the cup... but it would offer a unique opportunity to explore the effect of cup volume on the drivers. Fill it up, test it, spoon some out, test again, repeat. 

 

I've read comments in a few places that cup size/shape doesn't really matter that much; it's the volume that matters more. Anyone have comments on that? I can see that point from the bass perspective (particularly for anything below the Helmholtz resonance). For the treble I'm not so sure... as I've read that some consider treble as direct reflections off the surfaces, while a few other spots have said that for such small enclosures you actually treat the chamber as a uniform pressure source. Hmm. blink.gif

 

(sorry I can't actually quote the sources; these are just the bits and pieces of memory floating in my head)

 

     Treble can suffer dramatically in any enclosure from my understanding. Shorter the wavelength the less power to overcome any obstacle (including air, The live recording guys go nuts over that one). High energy bass is pretty much immune but can be reflected to tramp on other frequencies.I I think Borwick's Loudpeaker and Headphone handbook touches on that but I would not quote that as my source as I am not certain.

The cans we get up here (Canada) are multi use, but you really have to clean the nozzle off with acetone or some other solvent immediately after use. Acetone should also be the safety net for overfilled cups:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

I suppose you could line the entire cup bottom of your choice with saran/plastic food wrap then spray the stuff in ( spray foams ) and get the exact shape for the fit, then carve away whatever you didn't want or to whichever shape you want. Might work.  The outside of that stuff is usually shiny after it dries if i recall, but I forget what the insides are like after you get past the outer layer. Might be nicely full of cavities.

Cadbury Crunchie style holes. There I go again with the Crunchies what's up with that.

 

Something using the rough handmade large-fibre paper sheets in an accordian fold might do the trick also, never did try that.

 I ripped apart a respirator filter ( got charcoal everywhere ) and extracted a circular accordian-style disc made from very soft and delicate  paper fibres that looks like an interesting possibility which is why I thought about the handmade papers. A lot cheaper .

Just throwing it out there.

 

Damn You! I had a brief addiction for Crunchie Bars as a kid, now I've got a full blown jones on for one!

That is pretty much the texture of the foam once you get past the surface.

  Could have saved yourself the charcoal mess and bought a cheap automotive oil or air filter.:)

 

I'm still partial to the foam though as you could spray it, then push some vaseling coated template/mold into it to achieve whatever surface texture or shape you want. If I wasn't totally obsessed with the incredible sound to be gotten out of 10 dollar Phillips Earclips at the moment I might be tempted to dig out the skullcandy hemis (good lord, watch them start marketing Thant name next, the horror, the horror) and have a go at them and the fujis again.

post #21081 of 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hutnicks View Post

The cans we get up here (Canada) are multi use, but you really have to clean the nozzle off with acetone or some other solvent immediately after use. Acetone should also be the safety net for overfilled cups:)

 

The only spray foam ones I've picked up need to use that straw applicator thing, which is pretty much shot after the first use. Are there other kinds that don't need the straw?

post #21082 of 23660

Here's the word from DOW

 

Here’s what Dow tech support suggested about keeping a can reusable:

“One-component foams as GREAT STUFF(TM) do not lend themselves to re-use. Once a can has been used and allowed to sit for more than two hours, it will seal itself shut. This is indicated on the can’s label.

“It is possible to preserve a can of GREAT STUFF polyurethane foam sealant. Insert a pipe cleaner, soaked with WD-40, into the attached applicator straw (do not remove straw from can). Leave the pipe cleaner sticking out of the applicator straw approximately 1/4 inch. This has to be done within two hours of use. The WD-40 soaked pipe cleaner may preserve the can up to 30 days.”

 

On the pop off applicator cans, swish the applicator around in acetone for a few seconds and it will clear up. Use the WD 40 trick on the can nozzle and your good.

post #21083 of 23660

Hmm, good to know. 

post #21084 of 23660

I think I finally figured out what Peerless/Magnat attempted to do with the RT-10 (etc...).

 

I was holding the driver to my ear, enjoying the natural sound, and fine sounding bass that appears. Then I realized that this probably was what they tried to do with the suspension-in-air design.  Although, it didn't quite work (at least not after all those years since the headphone was made...), because the ears still don't rest directly on the drivers.

post #21085 of 23660

Incidentally, I was just holding the HOK drivers to my ears. Didn't sound fine this time, either.

post #21086 of 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

Incidentally, I was just holding the HOK drivers to my ears. Didn't sound fine this time, either.

 

I thought the HOK drivers sounded quite OK when in the headset together with really dense ear pads and some treatment of the terribly designed cups. But uncomfortable.

post #21087 of 23660

They do. Though I'm not sure what purpose the cup really serves with the HOK, might be interesting to do away with it somehow.

post #21088 of 23660

 Hok v1 I find to have some bass no doubt about it though it could be this damping configuration. From most earlier impressions I wasn't expecting much if any.

it might also be the improved amplification I am providing it .

 Only reason I mention this is my utter surprise at them after using them again, not seen use in months.   I need to redo the sealer/ putty it reacts with copper i noticed, so some other method should do it.

 

 

 Those Magnats are one of the things I regretted not grabbing when i had a chance.  Not sure who ended up with them.

 

So you are saying that if the driver was forward more, as much as possible to the ears, it would be best?

 Are we talking tiny amounts of difference or more?

 Just in case another rears it's head soon.

For some reason I know not, they are in my list of must-own-one-day cans. Convince me I don't need them. Help.

 

Thanks.


Edited by nick n - 2/13/13 at 12:53am
post #21089 of 23660

Not every phone is about bass, though. Could try to find a niche for a bass-light HOK.

post #21090 of 23660
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

GREQ: can you take a picture of the front side of those 2 headphones from the baffle/ear side views please when you feel like it.

 

I am curious . Also do they have a whitish cover over the driver on that side also?  - YES (it's some sort of metal mesh)

 

And thanks for taking the time to post pics and your experiments so far with them.

I forget if you ever found out what the impedances are for the drivers? - No, I just don't have the technology frown.gif 

And is the other one also strange with the offset holes when you look through them? - Yes and No (Universum is only half as 'incorrectly' aligned as the Watson)

 

 

Here is the front views of the grills.

Universum has 4 half circular grills (only the top half is vented) and the square silver grill is also a vent.

Watson has a single row of vents (they look white here as I was experimenting with cotton wool at the time of the photo).

 

This is one of those SFI drivers that was being sold on ebay as 'tweeters' or whatever it was they called it. (A few of you guys here got a hold of some of these too) I experimented with them by installing them into the universum just to see what they sound like.

As you can see, the holes are PERFECTLY aligned. (This side has a thin layer of 'felt', the other has a thin plastic fabric). 

The metal 'housing' is slightly smaller than the plastic housing around the ones found in both headphones.

 

These are the Universum drivers, which are about half as 'badly' aligned as the Watson's.

 

Here you can see the insides of both phones side by side, including stock damping, lying beside each.

The drivers have a fine wire mesh on either side of the driver, unlike the 'ebay' one which has a thin plastic fabric on one side and thin felt on the other. 

 

MODDING the Watson's damping solution:

Having two near identical headphones made it very easy to A-B test various damping solutions and simple mods.

I experimented with sealing the vents, adding various amounts of cotton wool and foam. 

 

Closing holes didn't add anything to the sound. At most, it improved the sub-bass volume and impact, but the mids always suffered, and the high mids were not smooth any more. The resulting 'closed sound' was also quite bad.

 

After a while (after trying various music genres) I discovered that the Universum (left) with yellow wooly stuff and thin foam actually had a more neutral, natural (timbre) and open sound. So my quest for today was to bring the Watson as close to it as possible. 

The stock Watson's stock foam damping I found to 'close' the sound somewhat. I initially put in a full piece of cotton wool which beefed the bass up quite a lot, but high trebles weren't as liquid as the other. 

I halved the cotton wool twice before I was happy with the high-mid/treble smoothness and tone, but the bass shrunk each time I did so. So I dug out some old cheap packaging foam I had lying around. It is easily less than 1/3rd the density of the origial stock foam but about the same thickness, so I added it behind the cotton wool, much like the Universum damping strategy. To my delight, they now sound almost the same, with the exception of the Watson having a little more bass, which to my ears sounds a little more balanced. This is probably because the packaging foam is 5X thicker than the Universums 'foam sheet'. 

 

Interestingly I did try various mods and materials on the Universum, but everything I did made the sound worse. So whoever at Universum came up with the venting and damping on this, probably knew what they were doing and had good ears too!

 

So, the 'ebay' drivers inside a headphone: 

I think these suffer a lot from the felt cover at the back of the driver. The treble is a bit woolier and the sound is more closed than the others.

I didn't really want to experiment with taking off the felt and exposing the driver. I'm not quite brave enough for that yet.

However the overall sound signature is practically the same.


Even the difference between the alignment of the driver holes doesn't seem to have any significant affect on the overall sound.

I didn't spend too long trying to figure this out, but that was my impression.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › Orthodynamic Roundup