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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 1396

post #20926 of 23373

Anybody wants to buy my TDS-5m? 150$ shipped

post #20927 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzphile View Post

Question that I have not seen addressed here in the 1400 or so pages of this thread:  Do particular models all require the exact same damping?  For example, I have two sets of YH1 headphones.  If I damp both exactly in the same manner, are the drivers manufactured with tight enough tolerances as to require the same damping scheme to sound exactly the same?

 

Another way of saying it:  From the factory, assuming no degradation over time, is there a variance in sound from one set of headphones to another (same model)?  If so, then different damping schemes might make sense from can to can.

 

I have thought a lot about this over the past year.  For every set of ears, there is a preferred damping scheme.  This is a personal preference based on our listening experiences, associated gear, etc.  But could it also be due to variances in drivers from headphone to headphone?

 

Happy New Year.

Aside from driver variances and who knows what kind of variance manufacturers back then had (look at the Russian models or even Yamaha's own HP-3/HP-50), other conditions like the mesh filter/cover and earpad conditions will also change the sound a bit.

 

As for two YH-1, there's also the oddity of the drivers themselves. My YH-1 drivers have nothing over the ferrite magnets, while leeperry shows his to have what seems like metal plates over on each end, much like what I think is the aniso HP-1 I have (whether it really is aniso or not, this one is my fav in terms of sound). I don't even know if YH-1 exists in the sintered and anisotropic versions like the HP-1 but at least my YH-1, which was opened for the first time last month, looked exactly like a larger HP/YH-2 driver.

 

I recently switched the entire baffle of my YH-1 (pads in almost pristine condition) with that of my HP-1 (almost flattened) and sadly the sound changed a bit. Will probably be switching the baffles over again, if I don't feel too lazy about un-sealing and re-sealing the drivers to the baffle.

 

In any case, preferences will play a huge role in damping.

post #20928 of 23373
Thread Starter 

While I've never seen a YH-1 Anisotropic (or a box for one), they could be out there. I was thinking that since making an anisotropic driver simply requires placing a thin steel plate over the magnets, you could DIY with some steel window screening (could be a little hard to find these days) or other acoustically transparent magnetic material. I wouldn't recommend steel wool.


Edited by wualta - 1/5/13 at 11:33pm
post #20929 of 23373

Wualta and Kalbee,

 

Thank you for addressing the issue of driver consistency, as well as damping approach to the same drivers across the same model of headphones.  Perhaps I missed something in the 1400 pages of this thread!!!!  I hope you can excuse my oversight. bigsmile_face.gif

 

 

Your replies make perfect sense and I suppose each headphone, each driver, and each earpad could contribute to differences in sound.  Age must be a factor as well in change in sound over time.

 

Kalbee brought up something that I will work toward, but have not done yet.  Many besides Kalbee have talked about sealing the driver to the baffle with BluTak, Bitumen or other resonance reducing materials.  I have not taken things to that level yet because I didn't want to take that step until I had settled on a final damping scheme.  I am pretty well settled on the damping scheme for my YH1s.  I doubt I'll damp then any further or modify the scheme at all.

 

So, with that said, if I take the next step and seal the drivers to the baffle, what are the expected improvements in sound?

 

Regards,

 

Jazzphile


Edited by jazzphile - 1/1/13 at 7:55pm
post #20930 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzphile View Post

Wualta and Kalbee,

 

Thank you for addressing the issue of driver consistency, as well as damping approach to the same drivers across the same model of headphones.  Perhaps I missed something in the 1400 pages of this thread!!!!  I hope you can excuse my oversight. bigsmile_face.gif

 

 

Your replies make perfect sense and I suppose each headphone, each driver, and each earpad could contribute to differences in sound.  Age must be a factor as well in change in sound over time.

 

Kalbee brought up something that I will work toward, but have not done yet.  Many besides Kalbee have talked about sealing the driver to the baffle with BluTak, Bitumen or other resonance reducing materials.  I have not taken things to that level yet because I didn't want to take that step until I had settled on a final damping scheme.  I am pretty well settled on the damping scheme for my YH1s.  I doubt I'll damp then any further or modify the scheme at all.

 

So, with that said, if I take the next step and seal the drivers to the baffle, what are the expected improvements in sound?

 

Regards,

 

Jazzphile

I joined the thread pretty recently compared to many of the others who practically built the thread, but I have to say I did not even get close to reading all the pages, so kudos to you!

 

As far as sealing the drivers, I'm not entirely sure at the moment how much of an effect it does, especially in the case of the Yamaha HP/YH-1/2. The inner baffle ring is already made with a more rubbery material that provides a better seal when the baffle screwed on tight, much like a rubber gasket. Though with age they may have hardened and lost some of it's effectiveness. Essentially doing it from recommendation.

 

As for the blue tak, I just roll a ~0.7mm diameter strip of blue tak and line that near the outer circumference of the drivers, and press the baffle tight onto the cups, flattening the blue tak before putting the screws back on.

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post

While I've never seen a YH-1 Anisotropic (or a box for one), they could be out there. I was thinking that since making an anisotropic driver simply requires placing a thin steel plate over the driver, you could DIY with some steel window screening (could be a little hard to find these days) or other acoustically transparent magnetic material. I wouldn't recommend steel wool.

 

Is it really as easy as overlaying with metal plates? interesting...

If anything, I do find that the aniso HP-1 has a bit less sound stage than the YH-1 w/o metal plates. More bass extension though. Granted I put the same exact damping for both of them but it could also be variance.


Edited by kalbee - 1/1/13 at 8:19pm
post #20931 of 23373

the metal plates should concentrate and control/focus the magnetic field.

 

I guess that would give you a tiny bit more response in the driver.

 

I know new T50rp Fostex drivers do this also with some bars  running lengthwise, pretty sure .


Edited by nick n - 1/1/13 at 8:43pm
post #20932 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzphile View Post

Kalbee brought up something that I will work toward, but have not done yet.  Many besides Kalbee have talked about sealing the driver to the baffle with BluTak, Bitumen or other resonance reducing materials.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post

 

As far as sealing the drivers, I'm not entirely sure at the moment how much of an effect it does, especially in the case of the Yamaha HP/YH-1/2. Essentially doing it from recommendation.

 

I measured the effect of blutack-sealing the drivers on one pair of HP-50S. http://www.head-fi.org/t/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/20625#post_8805137

 

Basically, it seems to not have helped in that case, and may in fact have worsened the sound by introducing some ringing.

post #20933 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

 

 

I measured the effect of blutack-sealing the drivers on one pair of HP-50S. http://www.head-fi.org/t/111193/orthodynamic-roundup/20625#post_8805137

 

Basically, it seems to not have helped in that case, and may in fact have worsened the sound by introducing some ringing.

Right, I remember your post about that. I don't think mine caused any ringing to occur (blue tak was completely flattened in the seal).

Which reminds me of my ATH-RE70 SFI retrofit, where unlike previous attempts, I did not cut a hole in the baffle to fit the SFI's flush to baffle surface. I just fit them where the original dynamic drivers were and it did cause some ringing issues until I damped it out I forgot how. I still have a +4dB over 2k~6kHz range or something. Talk about a bright headphone haha, but it's nice with a little bass boost from an FiiO E02i. In any case, I guess depending on the baffle, any space between baffle and driver can lead to ringing. Some are probably much more sensitive than other. I didn't seal my YH-3 drivers to the baffle but for every other one I more or less did.

 

Speaking of retrofit, I revisited my HP-2 enclosure that had SFI drivers stuffed inside. My last modification iteration was to add some arctic bamboo (or cotton) to the damping scheme. I forgot the order it was in but the gist was arctic cotton/bamboo + thick craft felt (those thick stuff used in children's crafts; adds little to no damping) + open cell foam around. Somehow I had to idea of switching the order of damping layers and the sound opened up incredibly. They get a lot more head time now biggrin.gif

 

Pretty happy with practically each of my ortho's now! Probably neither of them are total high end sound, but I'm satisfied.

Just need to do something about the TDS-15's. The broken headband is currently held with electric tape and seems to somewhat do the job.

The fit is so-so since there's zero length adjustability, and the pads I gave them are unfortunately the limiting factor in the sound. Need just a bit larger openings.

post #20934 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post

Right, I remember your post about that. I don't think mine caused any ringing to occur (blue tak was completely flattened in the seal).

 

I do think I saw (and I mentioned it in this thread back then) in purrin's CSD measurements of one or two Yamaha orthos the distinct peak of ringing around 5 kHz, which in my HP-50S was apparently caused by the blutack mod. Given the ubiquitous nature of the mod, wouldn't surprise me if it had been done to those phones as well. As always, I'd advise people in this thread to grab a microphone and measure their mods, would add to the knowledge.

post #20935 of 23373
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick n View Post

1 ) the metal plates should concentrate and control/focus the magnetic field.

 

2 ) I guess that would give you a tiny bit more response in the driver.

 

1 ) Yep, I'm confident that's the whole idea.

 

2 ) According to Yamaha's specs, you get 2 to 3dB more sensitivity/efficiency. Worth it, for such a simple and cheap mod. 

 

Metal [steel] screening wouldn't be quite as good, but should do no audible harm.


Edited by wualta - 1/3/13 at 6:48pm
post #20936 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

I do think I saw (and I mentioned it in this thread back then) in purrin's CSD measurements of one or two Yamaha orthos the distinct peak of ringing around 5 kHz, which in my HP-50S was apparently caused by the blutack mod. Given the ubiquitous nature of the mod, wouldn't surprise me if it had been done to those phones as well. As always, I'd advise people in this thread to grab a microphone and measure their mods, would add to the knowledge.
Do you have any software to recommend? I do have a mic setup and am using REW but waterfall doesn't look convincing. I've yet to encounter any case of ringing, thus my distrust. A new version just came out, maybe that will fix the seemingly isolated bug I have but, still, recommend me a soft if you may smily_headphones1.gif one that is free or inexpensive...
post #20937 of 23373

I use HOLMImpulse for creating the frequency response graph and a bit of software I wrote to generate waterfall measurements; I couldn't find any free CSD software myself. While HOLM is free, my waterfall program isn't quite polished for distribution. If you have an impulse response as a WAV file, I can try plot it and send you the results.

post #20938 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiEx View Post

Anybody wants to buy my TDS-5m? 150$ shipped

Beautiful work on the mods. I'd buy them if I didn't already have a set.

Do you have any extra DIY leather pads?
post #20939 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemonkeyflyer View Post


Beautiful work on the mods. I'd buy them if I didn't already have a set.
Do you have any extra DIY leather pads?

 

Sorry don't have another set, those are custom made. 

post #20940 of 23373
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiEx View Post

 

Sorry don't have another set, those are custom made. 

Dang. They are beauties.

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