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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 993

post #14881 of 23349
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post


The reason we use felt on our lesser vintage orthos is because their resonant frequency is in the bass, and the bass is where the diaphragm has to really move. That's lucky for us, because we can just add an acoustic series resistance and preferentially (though some might say differentially) suck the energy out of the resonant peak. But when the diaphragm isn't displacing much air, as in the upper midrange, damping won't help. That's why with the Staxen and A-Ts and in the single case of the YH-1k, the designers resorted to absorptive pads, and often this wasn't enough, as anyone who's listened to an un-EQ'd TK-33 knows.

 


What about the T50 & the OEM versions like  NAD RP18?

They seem to apply a similar absorptive yellow fibereglass pad.

 

post #14882 of 23349

I'm going to keep those pictures and show them to my wife the next time she complains that my two small tower speakers take up too much space in the rec room.  She's actually pretty reasonable about my audio obsession, but I can't imagine that the people who built those setups are married.

post #14883 of 23349
Thread Starter 

The pursuit of bass has some similarities to the pursuit of shelter. Sometimes.

 

Gurubhai: I was thinking of the Yamaha line, but yes, the same thing applies to the equally rare high-tuned [German?] NAD and T50v1. Think of them as exceptions that prove the rule.

.


Edited by wualta - 7/3/10 at 5:27pm
post #14884 of 23349

I'm definitely not enough of a DIYer to fix these up, but I thought I should link them for you strange headphone tech-lovin', vintage 'phone fixin' folk

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-PIONEER-STEREO-HEADPHONES-SE-700-/370403534074?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563dc564fa#ht_500wt_928

 

post #14885 of 23349

^^^

 

I was watching that auction...

post #14886 of 23349

$20 today, $90 in five more.

post #14887 of 23349
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurubhai View Post

What are these - Live in speakers ?


The classic and definitive acoustic impedance matching. 

post #14888 of 23349

When I was a kid, I believed in infinite baffles, so the back radiation from my speakers went to the outside world and the inside of the house was the pressurized cavity.  I was a favorite among the neighbors. 

Bozak Concert Grand?  Those puny things? 

post #14889 of 23349
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpearce View Post

I'm definitely not enough of a DIYer to fix these up, but I thought I should link them for you strange headphone tech-lovin', vintage 'phone fixin' folk

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-PIONEER-STEREO-HEADPHONES-SE-700-/370403534074?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563dc564fa#ht_500wt_928

 


looks lovely. too bad other earpiece has problem

post #14890 of 23349
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post

When I was a kid, I believed in infinite baffles, so the back radiation from my speakers went to the outside world and the inside of the house was the pressurized cavity.  I was a favorite among the neighbors.

 

When I was a kid, I believed in throwing away the backwave, so my speaker (from a 1954 Philco TV) sat face down (prophetic of Ohms to come) atop a well-stuffed wastebasket.

.


Edited by wualta - 7/3/10 at 9:21pm
post #14891 of 23349

It's a crapshoot, really. If the problem is in the cable, and simple recabling fixes the problem, and you've just gotten yourself a good deal on a niche headphone set. Otherwise, you're stuck with only one pizoelectric transducer (would you call it that?), and a nice-looking foster phone.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanakaku View Post




looks lovely. too bad other earpiece has problem

 

Oh, btw, before, when I prophesied about there never being a midrange Ortho, I was being stupid. There already is a whole series of them: the Fostex Tx0RP line!

post #14892 of 23349
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambones View Post

It's a crapshoot, really. If... you're stuck with only one piezoelectric transducer (would you call it that?)...

I think you can safely call it that. You can use it as a microphone, a temperature sensor, an accelerometer...

 

And no, I think you were right the first time about the Midrange Ortho. Is the typical Mk II Fostex really a midrange ortho for Greater Headphonia?  Isn't it likely to be judged too sucky in stock form to be mainstream-popular? Too big, clunky, retro looking, with not enough isolation to make up for it? Wouldn't people prefer something with a smaller footprint? Dunno. I was thinking that if Fostex wanted to, they could shoehorn the Mk II driver into something the size of the A-T FC700. I.e., they'd have to completely redesign it for the consumer market. Maybe OEM it for Denon or something.

EDIT: But I dunno-- I just spotted Friday's review of the stock T50RP by joelpearce. We know what they're capable of (and if we weren't sure, Smeggy nailed it down), but are they really suitable for the great mass of ibud wearers just emerging from their icocoons? Heck, maybe they are, in a clunky, anti-style kind of way.

.
 


Edited by wualta - 7/8/10 at 2:45pm
post #14893 of 23349

All my thoughts on cost of headphone production have already been stated there, so I have another question.

 

How does that felt phase correction circle in Fostex T50v1 work? I assume it blocks high frequencies coming from sides of driver, so that they do not arrive out of phase with highs radiated by driver's center. If so, it bears resemblance to Omega2's driver, where the perforated area on stators is noticeably smaller than the whole driver. That would correct the phase domain, but the problem, albeit attenuated, would still be seen in time domain, because low frequencies would still arrive delayed. Though, lows are lows, and they don't change quickly(hope you got me), and human hearing is really sensitive to time information in the 2-4kHz range.

 

Besides, that felt circle should provide some damping as well, I suppose..

post #14894 of 23349
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post

EDIT: But I dunno-- I just spotted Friday's review of the stock T50RP by joelpearce. We know what they're capable of (and if we weren't sure, Smeggy nailed it down), but are they really suitable for the great mass of ibud wearers just emerging from their icocoons? Heck, maybe they are, in a clunky, anti-style kind of way.

.
 

I will freely admit that I am a midrange headphone kinda guy.  I'm looking forward to someday having my own pair of Thunderpants to dip my toes into the higher end headphones, but on the most part I'm pretty content with midrange cans.

 

I'm not a huge expert at all this yet, but I have owned quite a few pairs of studio-oriented headphones in the past year: Beyerdynamic DT150, DT990 Pro, DT990/600, DT480, AKG K240M, Pioneer Monitor 10, Fostex T50RP, DBI Pro 700, Shure SRH840... I think I've heard enough from the competition to know that the newest iteration of the T50RP belongs near the top of that list.  

 

I guess I don't quite see myself as an ibud wearer just coming out of cocoon, if that was a reference to me ;)
 

post #14895 of 23349
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevod View Post

 

How does that felt phase correction circle in Fostex T50v1 work? I assume it blocks high frequencies coming from sides of driver, so that they do not arrive out of phase with highs radiated by driver's center. If so, it bears resemblance to Omega2's driver, where the perforated area on stators is noticeably smaller than the whole driver. That would correct the phase domain, but the problem, albeit attenuated, would still be seen in time domain, because low frequencies would still arrive delayed. Though, lows are lows, and they don't change quickly(hope you got me), and human hearing is really sensitive to time information in the 2-4kHz range.

 

Besides, that felt circle should provide some damping as well, I suppose..

Your intuition is correct: the low frequencies would suffer so little cancellation at the distances inside a headphone (see above speaker photos to get a feel for the size of the wavelengths involved) that it's not worth worrying about. Time = phase, it's just that when we're talking about small-scale time differences (less than a 360-degree shift), we say phase; when the differences are gross, we revert to talking time. Same thing, different scale.

 

Damping? Probly not. As in electrical theory, put a resistance in the way of a current and the current will try to find a way around it rather than try to go through it. The air will simply bypass the donut and go through the hole. But now you can see how the idea of a bass lens (still don't like the term but can't come up with a less silly one) works: The same air pressure generated by a bass note is now concentrated in an area one-fourth as large, ergo, more kPa, moar base. Which explains why folks opening up the hole in the earpad report that the highs are now getting through. It's just reduced bass.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpearce View Post

I will freely admit that I am a midrange headphone kinda guy.  

 

I guess I don't quite see myself as an ibud wearer just coming out of cocoon, if that was a reference to me ;)
 

I too can enjoy midrange (we're talking price now, not audio frequencies, though the two do tend to go together) headphones. I go for high performance/price ratios and judge headphones (and other products) accordingly, which is why I like my KSC-75 and my ECR-500 and my Lambda Nova and my Pro 30. I know it's hard to deliver good sound for little money, so I appreciate a good $30 headphone more than a merely-twice-as-good $500 headphone. You know, we're the "85% of the performance for 10% of the price" people.

 

And I don't see you as an ibud wearer either, if that helps. I was talking about the great wide world of headphone listeners and wondering how many could be induced, as you were, to try/buy something like the T50RPs as their first orthos, especially those who, unlike you, are headphonatics only in utero, still waiting for someone to plunk that first really good pair of headphones on their head.

 

For what it's worth, I thought your review was insightful and rational. You didn't use the word sucks even once.

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