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Orthodynamic Roundup - Page 785

post #11761 of 18854
Thread Starter 
Yes. Strange about that T50 treble rolloff, since other orthos can have highs that are more extended. But the rolloff is high up enough that I think what you're hearing as slightly forward mids really are slightly forward mids. In this it follows the SR-X.

Rattles, eh? Yeah, sounds like a proper comparison between the LCD-1 and the T50 will have to wait awhile longer.

Glad to hear the YH-3 transplant is succeeding. As for the bass, well, sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone and EQ the bottom end. It's often the case that a headphone is perfect until you try to get it to go down just one more octave.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Yamaha Stereo Headphones
Fostex T50RP Closed Ear Stereo Headphones
post #11762 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
MPI, is that a young you in the Float Foto? ....Any chicks?

Yeah, chicks dig T-amps. They're [shudders] "cute".
wualta knows what I'm talking about. All I have to do is tack some Hello Kitty stickers on both the T Amp and the electrostatic Floats and I'll become a veritable chick magnet. And yup, it's me, still being young.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Back to MPI-- your description of the SR-X Mk3 tells me you won't be surprised when you get it, and thus you won't be disappointed either. I've never thought the 3 had a treble rolloff, but your hearing is undoubtedly better than mine, so let us know about that.
I dislike buying "blind" because there's nothing worse than finding what I just bought sounds like junk so I try to make sure I know as much as I can about a headphone before I buy it, from impressions and whatnot. I assume you mean my ability to hear high frequencies is better, which I'm finding is true when comparing to most people. I definitely will let you know - treble extension/sibilance is the first thing I check for in a headphone, oddly enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
As for the bass, well, sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone and EQ the bottom end. It's often the case that a headphone is perfect until you try to get it to go down just one more octave.
I've never taken to EQ very well, both digital and analogue. Bass and treble knobs on receivers work decently enough with speakers but mess everything up with headphones, and I can usually tell there's something odd in the sound when I try using foobar2000's EQ, especially when I crank the bass up, since there's noticeable distortion. Maybe I need a proper EQ unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy
I just spent the last 3 hours testing it. Overall, it's excellent. The bottom octave or two (80 hz and below probably) seems a little recessed (4 dB?), but it's all there. The rest of the spectrum is darn near perfect. And the soundstage is great. I was listening to "Subterranean Homesick Alien" by Radiohead, and the sound was about two feet to each side of my ears.
Seems like even the loosely tensioned bassy YH3 drivers weren't quite big enough to produce bass in such a large enclosure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy
I might play with the damping some more, but it's so close now I hesitate to take them apart again. 485's are a pain to put together; there are three screws that have to be lined up at the same time (without being able to look). Though in the
last couple of days of multiple assemblies I've gotten better at it.
Aye, headphones that are hard to mod are such a turn-off for me. It's annoying enough having to continually disassemble and reassemble to test out mods, but if it's hard to do so, I just end up not doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy
Better soundstage and less reflections than the stock YH-3's.
I only have a decent amount of experience with the YH100 and HP1 in terms of Yamahas, but reflections and weird resonances were what bugged me most about them. They were worse than on my T40, which is actually closed. It seems the YH3 also has similar problems, stock. I can see why the Euro method of damping was necessary to make the 3's sound good.
post #11763 of 18854
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
All I have to do is tack some Hello Kitty stickers on both the T Amp and the electrostatic Floats and I'll become a veritable chick magnet.
Are the My Little Pony hologram stickers no longer au courant? Blast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
I dislike buying "blind"..
I understand. Experience builds intuition, making the leap of faith more rewarding, but in the beginning, it's best to move carefully.

Do keep in mind that after 30 years, anything with high voltage can have problems or just, well, idiosyncrasies. I have a couple of SR-Xes and they don't sound alike. One is louder and has more bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
I assume you mean my ability to hear high frequencies is better...
The odds are in your favor, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
...treble extension/sibilance is the first thing I check for in a headphone, oddly enough.
Not odd at all to us old-timers, since smooth, extended treble was the thing headphones historically couldn't do until the coming of the 'stats (which at first couldn't do bass, but that's another story).


Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
Bass and treble knobs on receivers work decently enough with speakers but mess everything up with headphones..
Depends on the phones and the receiver in question, of course, but if you only want to boost, say, low bass you need an amp/receiver/preamp/EQ box with what's called a variable turnover switch. Most simple tone controls hinge around 1kHz, which is too high for anything but a 'phone with a tilty response curve. A turnover switch lets you change the hinge point down to a useful frequency.

A midrange control is very handy too, which is why despite the risks (and the hiss) I always recommend people try to find a cheap Kyocera R-851, although there must be other affordable units with versatile EQ attached-- suggestions welcome.

Even if you don't listen to your 'phones with EQ, you need to have good EQ available to test your 'phones. It's a very telling method of evaluating the overall design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
Aye, headphones that are hard to mod are such a turn-off for me.
Which is one of the reasons why I keep bringing up the Pro 30. Love the sound or hate it, it's a cinch to work on and thus very instructive, in that it encourages you to try a great variety of mods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis
I can see why the Euro method of damping was necessary to make the 3's sound good.
Explain why this was so, if you would. I've never had a firm grip on the Euro method of damping or the theory behind it.

.
post #11764 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypasswordis View Post
I've never taken to EQ very well, both digital and analogue. Bass and treble knobs on receivers work decently enough with speakers but mess everything up with headphones, and I can usually tell there's something odd in the sound when I try using foobar2000's EQ, especially when I crank the bass up, since there's noticeable distortion. Maybe I need a proper EQ unit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post

Depends on the phones and the receiver in question, of course, but if you only want to boost, say, low bass you need an amp/receiver/preamp/EQ box with what's called a variable turnover switch. Most simple tone controls hinge around 1kHz, which is too high for anything but a 'phone with a tilty response curve. A turnover switch lets you change the hinge point down to a useful frequency.

A midrange control is very handy too, which is why despite the risks (and the hiss) I always recommend people try to find a cheap Kyocera R-851, although there must be other affordable units with versatile EQ attached-- suggestions welcome.

Even if you don't listen to your 'phones with EQ, you need to have good EQ available to test your 'phones. It's a very telling method of evaluating the overall design.


I'll put a plug in for Greg Ball's SKA Audio BassXT:
BassXt

I have 2 for my console refurb that will be going in soon. Unfortunately, Greg just moved to Malaysia, so his SKA Audio inventory is still sitting in boxes in Australia while he secures his work visa.

The tone controls on the Yamaha CR-620 work beautifully even with orthos, though I always tune and dampen with the controls at zero.
post #11765 of 18854
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan
I'll put a plug in for Greg Ball's SKA Audio BassXT..
Ah, it's a cute little bass-boosty thing. Very handy for those who want to tune their 4th-order Butterworth boxes downward to tighten up the bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan
The tone controls on the Yamaha CR-620 work beautifully even with orthos, though I always tune and dampen with the controls at zero.
As you should, but I'm glad you're having a good time with the old 620. Yama's philosophy was to make the cheap stuff sound just as good (though not as loud) as the expensive stuff, which anyone can applaud. And you can't beat that Scandinavian-inspired Yama styling.
post #11766 of 18854
Trying some angled pads on the yhd2 - much better seal with less variability in bass with pressure on the cups. So far, so good.





..dB
post #11767 of 18854
These look like some exotic candy I hope they sound sweet as well!
post #11768 of 18854
speaking of exotic, I couldn't get those gold nugget transistors of yours out of my mind today - kept popping up at the most inopportune moments!! is this why pole dancers are considered exotic? I digress ... yup there go those popping moments again ..dB
post #11769 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by dBel84 View Post
speaking of exotic, I couldn't get those gold nugget transistors of yours out of my mind today - kept popping up at the most inopportune moments!! is this why pole dancers are considered exotic? I digress ... yup there go those popping moments again ..dB
I was listening to my speaker system with gold transistors all day long today. Haven't listen to any phones in few weeks now. I think I will start again when it gets cooler in NYC.
post #11770 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta View Post
Are the My Little Pony hologram stickers no longer au courant? Blast.
I think there was an argument, and it escalated to the point where Hello Kitty lightsaber-dueled My Little Pony, winner became most popular. The learning curve was better for the Kitty because it was hard for the Pony's hooves to get a good grip on the lightsaber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
I understand. Experience builds intuition, making the leap of faith more rewarding, but in the beginning, it's best to move carefully.
Leaps of faith aren't my style. Too many things can go wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Do keep in mind that after 30 years, anything with high voltage can have problems or just, well, idiosyncrasies. I have a couple of SR-Xes and they don't sound alike. One is louder and has more bass.
Yes, quite an annoying issue, especially since Stax decided to give up all of their previous designs except the Lambda frames and of course made the Omega 2. At least it's not an electret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Not odd at all to us old-timers, since smooth, extended treble was the thing headphones historically couldn't do until the coming of the 'stats (which at first couldn't do bass, but that's another story).
To be honest, even most dynamic headphones today can't handle either treble, bass, or both. It's annoying to have to decide what kind of coloration bugs us the least when looking to buy headphones. The e-stat Floats, which I've recently started listening to again, remind me again why I like them, especially for classical music: it's the only headphone (if you can call it that) I have that can actually put out a soundstage that is coherent, and it bathes the listener in oodles of warm treble, which does wonders for the upper harmonics, and has some serious rumble in the bass before it dies away at about 60Hz. Still needs modding, for sure, though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Depends on the phones and the receiver in question, of course, but if you only want to boost, say, low bass you need an amp/receiver/preamp/EQ box with what's called a variable turnover switch. Most simple tone controls hinge around 1kHz, which is too high for anything but a 'phone with a tilty response curve. A turnover switch lets you change the hinge point down to a useful frequency.

A midrange control is very handy too, which is why despite the risks (and the hiss) I always recommend people try to find a cheap Kyocera R-851, although there must be other affordable units with versatile EQ attached-- suggestions welcome.

Even if you don't listen to your 'phones with EQ, you need to have good EQ available to test your 'phones. It's a very telling method of evaluating the overall design.
Playing around with EQ is definitely the best and fastest way for me to determine deviations from a flat frequency response (flat according to my ear, of course). I think 5 band equalizers were pretty common in integrateds/receivers in the '80s. Yeah, the problem with bass and treble (and I guess mid) controls is the circuits connected to them aren't high enough order since they have to cover such a large range, so everything bleeds into everything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Which is one of the reasons why I keep bringing up the Pro 30. Love the sound or hate it, it's a cinch to work on and thus very instructive, in that it encourages you to try a great variety of mods.
I've tried to wear a pair (cetoole's) and it is one of the most uncomfortable headphones I have ever tried in my life. Maybe I was doing something wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wualta
Explain why this was so, if you would. I've never had a firm grip on the Euro method of damping or the theory behind it.
So many layers of felt helps with the structural integrity (the drivers are no longer just loose in there), mitigates the effects of the weird reflex disc and overall backs of the cups, diminishes back wave and resonances, damps the vents, and of course damps the loosely tensioned diaphragms, all in one fell swoop.
post #11771 of 18854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faust2D View Post
I was listening to my speaker system with gold transistors all day long today. Haven't listen to any phones in few weeks now. I think I will start again when it gets cooler in NYC.
OK, now I'm curious, what amp has the gold transistors and what transistors are they?
post #11772 of 18854
I am sure F2D will not mind me reposting his previous post

They are Russian KP902 transistors which form the heart of this little gem





One day east coast and west coast may meet up and I will get to hear it , until then ..... gold transistors will plague my memory intermittently

..dB
post #11773 of 18854
Do gold transistors have good thermal stability?
post #11774 of 18854
Thread Starter 
They're MOSFETs, so yeah, they should.

Photo (which seems to've disappeared from HF): http://headfi.qix.it/megathreads/images/1/?q=kp904

And the KP901 and 904 are depletion-mode P-type MOSFETs, which mean they are similar to the old VFETs in one respect: they're fully on at max power unless you send a voltage to them to turn them off. Nifty!

.
post #11775 of 18854
Ah, very very sweet! Too bad they're rare.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Yamaha Stereo Headphones
Fostex T50RP Closed Ear Stereo Headphones
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