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need tips on getting a wide soundstage

post #1 of 9
3/19/05 at 10:56pm
Thread Starter 
I walked into a boutique audio/video store today out of sheer boredom and spent a few minutes in their listening room. While I was listening to speakers that cost less than half the price of mine, I couldn't help but notice what a huge soundstage they were all casting. The speakers didn't sound very good but they disappeared quite well. I've had no luck recreating this effect in my own room, and I am starting to think it is a placement problem.


My room is 12x14x8ft. My speakers about 3 feet off the front wall, and 3 feet out from either of the side walls. They have about 9 degrees of toe-in and I sit about 4.5 feet from the back wall. There is acoustic paneling on the side walls at the first reflection points, and foam on the front wall directly behind the rear ports.

The sound is excellent, the imaging is mediocre, and the sound stage is quite small. (ususally between the speakers, sometimes extending 1 foot out the sides with little depth). My goal is I want my speakers to sound 'big'. They are physically quite large being floorstanders but the big sound has never been there. Can anyone recommend a solution? I have tried no toe in as well with no avail.
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post #2 of 9
3/20/05 at 3:32am
its probably the signature sound of your speakers,

what speakers are you using?

do you have a subwoofer? if not you should try adding one, what is your amp, pre amp, receiver type? what do you have the crossover set at?

toe in causes sharper imaging, try facing them forward if you want to blur it a bit.

have you tried removing the acoustic paneling?
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post #3 of 9
3/20/05 at 5:02am
Thread Starter 
Hi,

My speakers are Triangle Zerius, a french company. Not many people have heard of them but stereophile rated them as one of the best sounding of 2002. Right now they are powered by a modified sonic t-amp, no preamp, source is toshiba 3960. I do have subwoofers but usually leave them off except for movies. Removing the acoustic treatment makes the entire room reverbate too much, and the imaging is totally haywire.

It might have been the amp i was listening to in the store, a mid-end harmon kardon stereo amplifier. It was driving some dinky speakers but the sound stage was huge. It felt like the entire wall adjacent to the speakers was alive with sound, whereas in my room it's more like two orbs emienating from the speakers.
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post #4 of 9
3/20/05 at 6:44am
hrm,

so you are using your dvd player as the encoder and the 6 channel out in the back of the player connected to the sonic t amp?

Maybe you need a beefier amp and a dedicated decoder/processor/preamp rather then just the dvd player

I know on my home theater the sub adds tangible elements to two channel listening. the lower frequency spectrum really help fill out the sound stage. The set up you heard is probably using a subwoofer.

and if your speakers cant play the low notes the sound stage can sound tiny.
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post #5 of 9
3/20/05 at 6:58am
Quote:
It was driving some dinky speakers but the sound stage was huge.
You might of just answered your own question!
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post #6 of 9
3/20/05 at 11:29am
I had the Titus before, they were really good at sound stage.
I would suggest get another amp to see if you need more power. It doesn't need to be expensive, the Teac tripath or the Sharp EX111 would be great.
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post #7 of 9
3/20/05 at 1:02pm
I'll bet it's a speaker placement issue. I once spent something like 5 hours trying to get a friend's speakers to soundstage & image the way they did in the showroom. We tried everything, re-arraged his room lengthwise, widthwise, speakers forward, back, toed in, straight, far apart, close together, everything. And failed. The speakers refused to disappear.

Finally at the end of the night I remembered something I read way back when and went with a diagonal setup. And it worked.
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post #8 of 9
3/20/05 at 10:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RnB180
hrm,

so you are using your dvd player as the encoder and the 6 channel out in the back of the player connected to the sonic t amp?

Maybe you need a beefier amp and a dedicated decoder/processor/preamp rather then just the dvd player

I know on my home theater the sub adds tangible elements to two channel listening. the lower frequency spectrum really help fill out the sound stage. The set up you heard is probably using a subwoofer.

and if your speakers cant play the low notes the sound stage can sound tiny.
using the analgoue l/r out directly to the sonic t-amp. turning on the subs fills the room with bass gives the illusion of soundstage, but i'd like the speakers to do that instead of the woofers.


In the listening room, I asked to listen to the harmon kardon amp and he hooked them up to very small speakers, I didnt look under the grille but probably 2 ways. At first he sneakily flicked on a $2000 subwoofer augment the sound but I had him shut it off. The bass on the speakers rolled off quite sharply at 100hz or so, it was the mids doing the soundstaging. The speakers disappeared so well I had to ask him after the music stopped exactly which speakers were playing.

anyways, last evening I pulled the speakers even further apart, and pulled them forward from the wall about another foot. The soundstage has widened, but it still sounds like I am listening to sound that is coming from two speakers, no disappearing act. I suspect it might be one of two things, room acoustics, and amplifier. In either case, my wallet is going to suffer
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post #9 of 9
3/20/05 at 11:54pm
I dont see why a subwoofer is a bad idea, If your speakers cant play 20Hz-20kHz

you need a sub.

anyhow, seems like your answered the question your self, sounds like its just the signature sound of your speakers, I use Mirage omni's driving them with an HK and two active subs, and the sound stage is enormous, there are no speakers in the room, it does the dissapearing act as you stated. but since my speakers are omni directional, I get a 360 degree enveloping sound stage from two speakers at the expense of precise imaging.
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