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post #4081 of 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayandjohn View Post

By Our Headphones Shall Ye Know Us

While I am still trying to figure out how I rank my own headphones, I took a bit of time to analyze the most recent data on this thread.

I looked at the data for the past 4 months, which includes 1027 statements of headphone ranking.  I am using this as a small data set to eventually analyze a much larger portion of the data, time permitting.

The analysis includes rank orders posted from Nov. 22, 2013 through April 24, 2014.  These postings included:
  • 1027 headphones;
  • 154 headphone owners (that averages to 6-2/3 headphones per owner, at least 3x the number of bathtubs per owner -- do we have a lot of unwashed listeners?!! etysmile.gif
  • 548 different headphone models.

With 548 headphone models and 1027 headphones, there are a lot of headphone models that only a few folks have... for example, 397 headphone models are listed by only 1 person, and 122 models are listed by two to five persons.  Hence, 519 headphone models are listed by less than 1/2 % of our post authors in that time segment.

Looking at the most frequently listed headphones, here are the headphones held by at least 1% of the folks in the sample (i.e. 10 or more people had these):


Headphones Owned by More than 1% of Rank Order Posters  
Model %
Sennheiser HD 800 2.5
Sennheiser HD 600 2.3
Sennheiser HD 650 2.3
Audeze LCD-2.2 1.4
Beyerdynamic T 1 1.4
Koss PortaPro 1.3
Sennheiser HD 598 1.3
Fostex TH600 1.2
HiFiMan HE-400 1.2
AKG K550 1.1
HiFiMAN HE-500 1.1
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 1.0


Each of these headphones was listed by multiple owners as part of a rank order list.  One can compute a relative position of a headphone on a rank order list... for example a Sennheiser HD 800 listed at the top of a list of three might be in a relative position of 0.33, i.e., 33% into the list.  If another person listed that headphone as second in a list of 6, it would be at a normalized position of .33 on that list as well.  In this manner, lists can be combined that rank various numbers of headphones.

With at least 10 lists that rank each of these most-commonly-used headphones, we can compute a rank position (closer to 0 if ranked high; closer to 1 if ranked low) as well as a standard deviation.  Here are the same headphones, ranked from "best" scoring (lowest) on down, with standard deviation:

Most Popular Headphones, Scored Best-to-Worst by Rank Position, with Standard Deviation
Model Rank Std (+/-)
Sennheiser HD 800 0.29 0.21
Beyerdynamic T 1 0.38 0.18
Audeze LCD-2.2 0.41 0.29
HiFiMan HE-500 0.44 0.24
Sennheiser HD 598 0.45 0.22
Fostex TH600 0.46 0.17
Sennheiser HD 600 0.48 0.31
Sennheiser HD 650 0.50 0.26
AKG K550 0.50 0.23
HiFiMAN HE-400 0.59 0.27
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 0.62 0.33
Koss PortaPro 0.77 0.26


This same information can be presented graphically, ordered from left to right by increasing position down the rank order list:




Rank Order Position, with Standard Deviation, of The Most Popular Headphones

What is most useful, and I've not yet computed, is how a particular headphone of interest compares to other specific headphones, as ranked by the folks on this thread.  If I am considering a Sennheiser HD 800 (which I am!), what headphones do folks rank ahead of it?  Equal to it?  Below it?  Are there any correlation of a person's ranking of a Sennheiser HD 800 with how they rank other headphones... for example, if they like bass headphones and have ranked Beats Pro relatively higher than most, do they tend to rank HD 800s lower (if indeed there ARE enough people that have both!?)

Ideally, my work here will result in a spreadsheet that I can post for all to use that allows one to dial in a headphone of interest and retrieve other headphones compared to that headphone of interest, how they compared, and perhaps even who made the comparison, to allow a note to that person to be sent ("Why did you rank the Beats Pro above the Sennheiser HD 800?")

As I work further back into the data, the number of headphone models that have enough users to have useful statistical rankings will increase and such comparisons will be possible on more headphone types.

OK... back to data entry!

I love statistics very cool post

I own three headphones n love all three equally headphone has a designated spot n pourpose

I use my modded he4 at home

and I used my w 1000 X modded
and Deanon d2k modded

on the go. my d2k is strictly for EDM which is about half of my portable collection

where as my W 1000 x is for everything else which is the other half of my music collection
post #4082 of 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayandjohn View Post

By Our Headphones Shall Ye Know Us



 



While I am still trying to figure out how I rank my own headphones, I took a bit of time to analyze the most recent data on this thread.



 



I looked at the data for the past 4 months, which includes 1027 statements of headphone ranking.  I am using this as a small data set to eventually analyze a much larger portion of the data, time permitting.



 



The analysis includes rank orders posted from Nov. 22, 2013 through April 24, 2014.  These postings included:



 




  • 1027 headphones;

  • 154 headphone owners (that averages to 6-2/3 headphones per owner, at least 3x the number of bathtubs per owner -- do we have a lot of unwashed listeners?!! " src="http://files.head-fi.org/images/smilies/etysmile.gif" />

  • 548 different headphone models.



 



With 548 headphone models and 1027 headphones, there are a lot of headphone models that only a few folks have... for example, 397 headphone models are listed by only 1 person, and 122 models are listed by two to five persons.  Hence, 519 headphone models are listed by less than 1/2 % of our post authors in that time segment.



 



Looking at the most frequently listed headphones, here are the headphones held by at least 1% of the folks in the sample (i.e. 10 or more people had these):



 



 
































































Headphones Owned by More than 1% of Rank Order Posters  
Model %
Sennheiser HD 800 2.5
Sennheiser HD 600 2.3
Sennheiser HD 650 2.3
Audeze LCD-2.2 1.4
Beyerdynamic T 1 1.4
Koss PortaPro 1.3
Sennheiser HD 598 1.3
Fostex TH600 1.2
HiFiMan HE-400 1.2
AKG K550 1.1
HiFiMAN HE-500 1.1
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 1.0


 



Each of these headphones was listed by multiple owners as part of a rank order list.  One can compute a relative position of a headphone on a rank order list... for example a Sennheiser HD 800 listed at the top of a list of three might be in a relative position of 0.33, i.e., 33% into the list.  If another person listed that headphone as second in a list of 6, it would be at a normalized position of .33 on that list as well.  In this manner, lists can be combined that rank various numbers of headphones.



 



With at least 10 lists that rank each of these most-commonly-used headphones, we can compute a rank position (closer to 0 if ranked high; closer to 1 if ranked low) as well as a standard deviation.  Here are the same headphones, ranked from "best" scoring (lowest) on down, with standard deviation:



 



Most Popular Headphones, Scored Best-to-Worst by Rank Position, with Standard Deviation







































































Model Rank Std (+/-)
Sennheiser HD 800 0.29 0.21
Beyerdynamic T 1 0.38 0.18
Audeze LCD-2.2 0.41 0.29
HiFiMan HE-500 0.44 0.24
Sennheiser HD 598 0.45 0.22
Fostex TH600 0.46 0.17
Sennheiser HD 600 0.48 0.31
Sennheiser HD 650 0.50 0.26
AKG K550 0.50 0.23
HiFiMAN HE-400 0.59 0.27
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 0.62 0.33
Koss PortaPro 0.77 0.26


 



This same information can be presented graphically, ordered from left to right by increasing position down the rank order list:



 







Rank Order Position, with Standard Deviation, of The Most Popular Headphones



 



What is most useful, and I've not yet computed, is how a particular headphone of interest compares to other specific headphones, as ranked by the folks on this thread.  If I am considering a Sennheiser HD 800 (which I am!), what headphones do folks rank ahead of it?  Equal to it?  Below it?  Are there any correlation of a person's ranking of a Sennheiser HD 800 with how they rank other headphones... for example, if they like bass headphones and have ranked Beats Pro relatively higher than most, do they tend to rank HD 800s lower (if indeed there ARE enough people that have both!?)



 



Ideally, my work here will result in a spreadsheet that I can post for all to use that allows one to dial in a headphone of interest and retrieve other headphones compared to that headphone of interest, how they compared, and perhaps even who made the comparison, to allow a note to that person to be sent ("Why did you rank the Beats Pro above the Sennheiser HD 800?")



 



As I work further back into the data, the number of headphone models that have enough users to have useful statistical rankings will increase and such comparisons will be possible on more headphone types.



 



OK... back to data entry!


 



very cool info, thanks!!
post #4083 of 4558

Hello kayandjohn,

 

I had done this kind of statistical analysis myself, when I had spare time on several occasions... mostly at work/college/...
and I chose a starting year of 2012. But it wasn't until a month later that I realized - It doesn't cover the whole story, and never shalt;

 

The problem at point, being that people do tend to like a certain headphone better than another, for more than one reason:

1. A personal taste/preference, whereof the community tried to list "Clubs" as a reference point to taste...-> Bass: bass-heads, Mids: mid-centric, Treble: treble-heads, or just
    Neutrality/balanced .

2. A person using the "wrong" amp. for a certain "power hungry" headphone...(or no amp. at all) - Try using a "little-dot 2" amp. with an HD800...=> the 1/7th priced DT880
    might just sound better (and is). The case is even worse when speaking of certain Orthodynamic-headphones.

3. Diverse songs... What you find yourself listening to more; sometime you prefer Classical music, which for that the HD800 is the best dynamic headphone ever, no argue
    there.. (see "wall of fame" on every respected site). But then, you might prefer Vocal music, and you need  something which sounds "closer" to your ears, with much less
    (yes, smaller!) sound-stage... give it full bodied vocals, more warmth, and have a more "organic color" to the Mids... don't even get me started on metal/fast-rock music...

4. all-in-one / jack-of-all-trades, versus, specialized headphone for each genre; Some people have the will, and have a hold of several headphones and/or amps.

    while others- are in constant search for their "all-rounder" solution... everything is never quite enough. Try watching a YouTube video with an analytical IEM...

 

So, to make this work... the first thing you need to do, is to separate each headphone to its respected category. (for ex. DT880 with K/Q701/2 with Shure ... )

and you certainly cannot put dark and "euphonic" headphone such as the LCD v2, with the Beyerdynamic T1... for they are "opposite" headphones. (et al)

Then, try to "know" the "ranking person"... what his/her tastes are, and if they synergies the "complementary" equipment with it. (for instance: a bright headphone with a warm amp... etc) 

 

Just sharing my 2c,

/Eyal

 

 

P.S

HD598 is NOT better than higher-end HD600/650. sry.


Edited by eyal1983 - 4/29/14 at 3:04pm
post #4084 of 4558

Oh absolutely eyal1983!  One of the biggest analyses still needed is WHAT a person compares a given headphone to... that is what I  outline in my "further research" comments.

 

Each person's ranking used in the plot rates the headphone against a different list.  Perhaps folks who buy and rate Sennheiser HD 598s have a population of headphones that is generally less capable than folks who buy the Sennheiser HD 600 or HD 650!  That makes the HD 598 stand out in the same way I was top student in my "bonehead" remedial English class.

 

And what I think people really care about is not the rating of a headphone against an indiscriminant population of all headphones, but its rating against headphones vying for the same market, e.g. bass-head headphones, or accurate headphones, etc.

 

That is why my goal is eventually to have a tool that one enters a headphone and then learns both to what other headphones it had been compared, and how it fared in those comparisons.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

post #4085 of 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayandjohn View Post
 

Most Popular Headphones, Scored Best-to-Worst by Rank Position, with Standard Deviation

Model Rank Std (+/-)
Sennheiser HD 800 0.29 0.21
Beyerdynamic T 1 0.38 0.18
Audeze LCD-2.2 0.41 0.29
HiFiMan HE-500 0.44 0.24
Sennheiser HD 598 0.45 0.22
Fostex TH600 0.46 0.17
Sennheiser HD 600 0.48 0.31
Sennheiser HD 650 0.50 0.26
AKG K550 0.50 0.23
HiFiMAN HE-400 0.59 0.27
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 0.62 0.33
Koss PortaPro 0.77 0.26

Having heard a lot of these, that definitely sounds about right as far as my ears are concerned.

 

Statistics are fun.

post #4086 of 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

Having heard a lot of these, that definitely sounds about right as far as my ears are concerned.

 

Statistics are fun.

Hehe I agree. And figuring most people don't have the money to drop thousands on headphones it makes sense that neither Stax nor Abyss appear on this list... (Though they should be put in a category similar to "super cars" along with the Sony-MDR R10, HE-60, Orpheus etc.)


Edited by wahsmoh - 4/29/14 at 10:48pm
post #4087 of 4558

As of right now:

 

1) Mad Dog 3.2

2) Beyerdynamic Custom One Pro

3) Sennheiser HD558

post #4088 of 4558

1. Hifiman HE500

Pros

+ Highly detailed   + Perfect tonal balance for most of my music   + Nice deeply extended but tight bass, I don't like elevated bass too much outside of my small electronic collection  + Treble is non sibilant and quite even keeled IMO   + Gorgeous and very euphoric midrange

Cons

- slightly heavy for extended listening   - I hate the feeling of the velour pads on my skin

 

2. Sennheiser HD600

Pros

+ Kind of similar in overall signature to the HE500 - but I prefer its air for classical, acoustic yadda yadda...  + Slightly warm and laid back - relaxing  + Great treble that once again is just right for me   + Very comfortable  + Strong soundstaging

cons

- Bass is not as good in extension/tightness as the planars for me

 

3. Hifiman HE400

Pros

+ Rich and deep bass, great for electronic - any more and I don't like it   + Great deep sound to them, and great layering   + more fun and energetic sound sig  + buttersmooth synth sound - maybe because of the dark mids

Cons

- treble is too much for me on anything other than my electronic stuff   - not as remarkably clear as the HE500  - again they are bit heavy, but still comfortable for about an hour

 

4. Mad Dog 3.2

Pros

+ isolate extremely well - no leakage  + Laid back easy going sound signature for those times I can't use the HD600  + very comfortable + second favorite bass after the HE400

Cons

- well extended and fun  - a tiny tad dull at times in the treble for me 

 

My main music is 70s Prog rock, Hard Rock and punk. Also 80s Rock music (Van Halen, INXS, Guns N Roses, Judas Priest, Ozzy Osbourne). 90s Rock and Grunge, also stuff from recent times like Alter Bridge, Clutch, QoTSA etc. Goa, uplifting, vocal and psy trance - IDM, Ambient Electronic, Future pop, Chillout. A bit of softer Indie. Blues, Jazz and acoustic/folk. Lastly but not leastly I enjoy things like softer classical soundtracks, field recordings and highly enjoy NeoFolk music. 

 

I don't listen to aggressive heavy metal sub genres (My heavy limits are like Judas Priest, Grim Reaper, Saxon old fashioned melodic heavy metal) Many heavier styles of electronic, mainstream pop, hip hop or R&B and I don't listen to hardcore punk.


Edited by Loretta - 4/30/14 at 5:15am
post #4089 of 4558

Here is my latest ranking:

 

Sennheiser HD800
Sony MDR-F1
Beyerdynamic T5p
Sennheiser PX100
Beyerdynamic DT1350
Martin Logan Mikros 90
Grado SR60i
Ostry KC06
Sony MDR-7550
Vsonic GR07 MKII
Sony MDR-MA900
Sennheiser PX200
T-Peos H-100
Sennheiser MX760

post #4090 of 4558
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahsmoh View Post
 

Hehe I agree. And figuring most people don't have the money to drop thousands on headphones it makes sense that neither Stax nor Abyss appear on this list... (Though they should be put in a category similar to "super cars" along with the Sony-MDR R10, HE-60, Orpheus etc.)


wahsmoh, some folks do rank Stax headphones...

 

Stax Lamda 507 (1 user)
Stax Lamda SR-202 (1)
Stax SR-009 (2 users)
Stax SR-5 NB (1)

 

Just not enough to meet the 10-user-per- model that I chose as my threshold for further looking.  As I get more data, I would expect some might approach 10.  No Abyss users yet though!

post #4091 of 4558
My list might be changed waiting on a t90 arrival. Beyerdynamic dt990pro vs AKG K701 vs hifiman he 400 vs beyerdynamic t90. Battle of the elites!!! Let's get ready to rumble!!!! Who will earn my coveted pillowed spot near my pillow?
post #4092 of 4558

Having had these three for a few months now and rotating between them:

 

1. HE-6 = HD800

3. TH900

 

kayandjohn, great work on the analysis! The sounds like what I hear.

post #4093 of 4558

All HPs (also the ones I've sold):

 

1.) HD650

2.) DT880 (Sold. Too bad it has this annoying peak at 9k... otherwise it would be perfect)

3.) K601

4.) K701

5.) ATH M-50 (Sold. Uneven FR)

6.) SRH 840 (Sold. Very uncomfortable)

7.) K550 (stinking pads, bad seal, lack of mids)

post #4094 of 4558
Going to change up my ratings as my highest ranked headphone isn't my favorite sounding and I got a better sense of my new headphones.

In terms of sound quality:
1.) AKG K612 Pro(Very transparent, linear, beautiful mids, and very natural sounding)
2.) AKG K712 Pro(Somewhat U-shaped, refined, musical, and slightly veiled)
3.) Sennheiser HD 545(Quite neutral and quite clear, but a bit overly smooth and somewhat boring)
4.) MB Quart QP 220(Bright, engaging, lacking some refinement, and has a haze to the sound)

In terms of comfort:
1.) AKG K712 Pro(Insanely comfortable; near-perfect fit with non-itchy pads)
2.) AKG K612 Pro(Really comfortable but pads slightly itchy after some use and doesn't form quite as well to the head as the K712)
3.) MB Quart QP 220(Light clamp, slightly small openings, and itchy pads)
4.) Sennheiser HD 545(Too shallow earcups and earcup openings too small)

Overall:
1.) AKG K712 Pro
2.) AKG K612 Pro
3.) Sennheiser HD 545
4.) MB Quart QP 220
Edited by kman1211 - 5/1/14 at 11:35am
post #4095 of 4558

Regarding my post "By Our Headphones Shall Ye Know Us" that performs some statistical characterization of the most recent 1,000 headphone rankings on this thread, referenced here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/109756/rank-the-headphones-that-you-own/4065#post_10501387 :

 

We have given a rank order position, from 0 (best) to 1 (worst) of the 12 headphone models that are called out at least in 1% of the comparisons (i.e., at least 10 times).

 

However, what I think folks care about more than rank order is how someone who owns several headphones of interest rank orders those headphonesThat is what I try to communicate here.

 

More specifically, a person may come to this data with a particular headphone in mind and ask, "How do the people who have this headphone rank it against other headphones?"

 

To that end, I limited my analysis to just these top 12 headphones, ignoring all data on other headphones listed less often.

 

With that restricted population of headphones, I screened the various rank order lists given to only look at the ranking of those headphones.  It turns out that there are 115 rankings of just these headphones to each other... a few users (you know who you are, Eternal Schism, saren, pdrm360!) have five or more of these 12 headphones and provide a useful rank ordering of them.

 

For each of the 12 headphones, I lined up the list of comparisons from each user that ranked it against one or more of the remaining 12 popular headphones.  I lined these up horizontally, with the headphone of interest occupying the same vertical position in each adjacent list, and headphones ranked above it listed, by model name, above it and headphone ranked below it listed below it.  Hence, each list is preserved so that you know WHICH headphones scored better and worse for each user.

 

I also computed an average rank order score (a number from 0.00 to 1.00).

 

Here are the results:

  • One colored row for each of the 12 headphones, with the headphone of interest indicated in a gray horizontal box for each list;
  • Longer rows (e.g. first row) have more user rank order lists than short rows (e.g. next-to-last row)
  • Each vertical list within each row is the list of somebody who expressed a ranking of the headphone of that row;
  • The headphone that is described in each row is shown in the colored box, along with an average score of its position across all rankings of these 12 headphone models and giving a price (or sometimes, two:  manufacturer's site / Amazon.com site);
  • and For each user list within a row, the headphone of that row appears in the same vertical position and is connected across the user ranking lists by a gray box
  • Clearly, you need to click on the image to be able to read it!:

 

 

Interesting things to note include:

 

  • Sennheiser HD 800 is always placed at the top of whatever list it is compared to, while the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 and Koss PortaPro are always placed at the bottom.
  • Sennheiser HD 800 has an average ranking far better than the next on the list (Beyerdynamic T 1), which in turn is above a group of the next three that are ranked together (Audeze LCD-2.2, Sennheiser HD 650, and HiFiMAN HE-500)
  • Sennheiser HD 650 is ranked above the Sennheiser HD 600 three times and below it two times.

 

If one were to characterize each headphone as to "type" (e.g., HD 800 as "balanced," Audeze LCD-2.2 as "warm,"), one might be able to find more correlation in the results... perhaps people rank headphones of their preferred type higher than others.  This is merely conjecture at this point.

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