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Copper vs. Silver and brightness? - Page 2

post #16 of 87
what i fail to see is if someone wants the 'copper sound', he can go for vampire wires, if the person wants 'silver sound', he can go for raw silver wires.
i tried larry's copper + silver combo and didn't like it, ps audio's silver plated copper cables and zu gede (silver + copper) didn't impress me as well. let's just say i am not a fan of copper wires...heck i even sold my zu mobius for a silver dragon.
post #17 of 87
I have a bright sound home system too, probably nowhere near as good as you guys if your spending 3 digit figures a cable.

but I had a couple grand to rewire my system, id just get a pre amp and two mono blocks. and keep copper cables better yet,

DIY and save money. I wouldnt be surprised that any typical DIY'er can build a cable equivalent to any high priced cable and at the most 30% of the retail cost.

asterix, I would recommend you drop the cash for some decently built silver clad copper cables and give em a test run. build your own on the cheap so you can hear if you dig them.
post #18 of 87
r&b: do you know if bare copper wire is cheaper than silver plated copper wire? assuming similar quality, materials etc.
post #19 of 87
I never bought bare copper wire, but you can get copper hook up wire very cheap if you are comparing costs of teflon silver clad aerospace/military wire and pc copper hook up wire.

I use copper for my speakers though canare 4s11 dual lead configuration, pics in sig.
and have been using copper for my interconnects just recently swapped out the cables with silver clad copper and silver plugs and I dug it, Im actually rewiring my whole sacd set up with it.

im always up for diy, ill probably pick up some pure silver wire via ebay and make my own silver litz interconnects, though I wouldnt be able to do side by side comparisons, since its far too difficult and time consuming to switch them out,



Id forget the sound signature since theyd be so minute in a matter of seconds.
post #20 of 87
ok thanks. lets see if i can get a small spool of teflon insulated copper wire...
post #21 of 87
ebay has rolls of them, you can get like 50 feet for $10-12 bucks.

type silver teflon.

if you know how to make your own interconnects and have the tools, material costs should be very affordable.
post #22 of 87
those are 'silver plated copper wires', argh.
will see if percy audio has them.
post #23 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilS
I did not really like the sound of a silver interconnect in my system, and much preferred the copper interconnects. The one potential issue re a copper/silver cable is how it is made. I have heard or read that a hybrid copper/silver cable can sound like a silver cable if it is made one way, and a copper cable if it is made another way. I finally ended up with the LAT International interconnect, which uses some sort of copper/silver fusing process if I recall. I has the warmth of copper in my system, but does not seem to have any of the harshness that all silver interconnects caused in my system.
Consider this another vote for the LAT International line of cables and interconnects. (www.latinternational.com) These utilize copper/silver conductors of a proprietary design with excellent insulation materials, design, and construction. They also do direct sale, custom construction, and represent a great bargain. I use these throughout my #1 system.

That said, my experience is silver is that it is very fast and, while not being bright in and of itself, may exacerbate the brightness of a bright system by giving it extra "detail". I like great detail, but am not a fan of bright "crunchiness".
post #24 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiberian
those are 'silver plated copper wires', argh.
will see if percy audio has them.

sorry I thought that was what you were referring, to, if you want copper, try PC shop or electronic shops.

Id rather have the silver clad over copper though, I have copper in my system right now, will swap them out for silver clad.
post #25 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiberian
ok thanks. lets see if i can get a small spool of teflon insulated copper wire...
If you find some that's relatively cheap let me know, I'd like to experiment with it and can't seem to find a good solution.
post #26 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiGHFLYiN9
If you find some that's relatively cheap let me know, I'd like to experiment with it and can't seem to find a good solution.
Good luck. Teflon-coated pure copper is very rare, especially solid-core copper in teflon, not to mention high-purity continuous-cast solid core copper in teflon. So rare that I've never seen it anywhere. Cable manufacturers don't like to make this type of wire b/c it's extremely difficult to extrude teflon over bare copper. It's much easier to extrude teflon over silver, thus the silver-plating. If anyone finds a stash of teflon-coated pure copper solid core wire, I'll buy some off of you for good money, more money than I pay for pure silver in teflon wire.

Forget this "mil-spec" silver-plated copper lingo, b/c most such wire I've seen are mil-spec and still dirt-cheap. This is the cheapest, most common wire one can find pretty much anywhere. There is a distinction between silver-plating and true silver-clad wire, which is much more expensive and difficult to make b/c silver has to be physically pressed with enormous pressure onto copper, not simply plated using electricity.

In fact, if you know a source of true silver-clad solid core wire, such as Nordost, please let me know.

One can get close by using something like Jena Labs wire, which is stranded (I prefer solid core) copper wire encased in teflon-like material (unflourinated teflon according to Jena Labs). I have heard this wire, and I do like it despite its stranded nature. This is stuff is pretty pricy.

Enamel-coated continuous cast solid core copper wire ("magnet wire") from Vampire is very nice sounding stuff and pretty cheap too. Chimera Labs makes some great cables with this stuff, and I've made DIY cables with it with great results. Go for 4-wire braid without shielding for typical RCA interconnect.. I prefer this to your usual 24-28 AWG pure silver solid core wire threaded through hollow teflon tubing, which I have used plenty in the past.

If one wants to go exotic, the enamel-coated pure silver solid core wire from Audio Consulting of Switzerland is something to consider, but I would use multiple parallel runs, a la braiding. Very smooth sounding as far as silver goes.

But if all that sounds too daunting to you, just go out a buy a good cable off audiogon, which can save you a lot of hassel and anguish. If you want silver, check out the Cryotweaks CT Silver interconnect, which is truly great. If you want copper, I recommend Chimera Labs IC, which is a steal.

My 2 cents
post #27 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L
Good luck. Teflon-coated pure copper is very rare
Yup, that's what it seems. I've come across stranded before but the seller was unaware of the purity so I didn't pick it up.
post #28 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon L
Good luck. Teflon-coated pure copper is very rare, especially solid-core copper in teflon, not to mention high-purity continuous-cast solid core copper in teflon. So rare that I've never seen it anywhere. Cable manufacturers don't like to make this type of wire b/c it's extremely difficult to extrude teflon over bare copper. It's much easier to extrude teflon over silver, thus the silver-plating. If anyone finds a stash of teflon-coated pure copper solid core wire, I'll buy some off of you for good money, more money than I pay for pure silver in teflon wire.

Forget this "mil-spec" silver-plated copper lingo, b/c most such wire I've seen are mil-spec and still dirt-cheap. This is the cheapest, most common wire one can find pretty much anywhere. There is a distinction between silver-plating and true silver-clad wire, which is much more expensive and difficult to make b/c silver has to be physically pressed with enormous pressure onto copper, not simply plated using electricity.

In fact, if you know a source of true silver-clad solid core wire, such as Nordost, please let me know.

One can get close by using something like Jena Labs wire, which is stranded (I prefer solid core) copper wire encased in teflon-like material (unflourinated teflon according to Jena Labs). I have heard this wire, and I do like it despite its stranded nature. This is stuff is pretty pricy.

Enamel-coated continuous cast solid core copper wire ("magnet wire") from Vampire is very nice sounding stuff and pretty cheap too. Chimera Labs makes some great cables with this stuff, and I've made DIY cables with it with great results. Go for 4-wire braid without shielding for typical RCA interconnect.. I prefer this to your usual 24-28 AWG pure silver solid core wire threaded through hollow teflon tubing, which I have used plenty in the past.

If one wants to go exotic, the enamel-coated pure silver solid core wire from Audio Consulting of Switzerland is something to consider, but I would use multiple parallel runs, a la braiding. Very smooth sounding as far as silver goes.

But if all that sounds too daunting to you, just go out a buy a good cable off audiogon, which can save you a lot of hassel and anguish. If you want silver, check out the Cryotweaks CT Silver interconnect, which is truly great. If you want copper, I recommend Chimera Labs IC, which is a steal.

My 2 cents
Jon L, IMHO, after a certain point there is no audio distinction discernable to the human ear.

the audioholics link I posted prior is an excellent article you should read. Because some of the cables you mention, and cryo tweaks ( people sticking their cables in the freezer and selling it for more) is really funny stuff.

EDIT: removed forbidden words
post #29 of 87
Quote:
Jon L, IMHO, I think you should involve yourself in a blind a/b test.
NO YUO!!!! You're not to mention "science" or any other four-letter words (especially "DBT", which is expressly verboten) in this forum.
post #30 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodbac
NO YUO!!!! You're not to mention "science" or any other four-letter words (especially "DBT", which is expressly verboten) in this forum.

what is DBT? sorry if I have broken any rules.

btw, I do indeed like the sound of silver plated copper. Though some people may down play it, Im calling them out for actual reasons of why its poor and if there is truly a negative aspect to audio because of the wire. Its an insult to my listening opinion. Why not ask naysayers to prove the poor qualities of such wire through actual reasons why audio will suffer an adverse effect? There are obviously many here in this thread that enjoy silver plated copper, along with professional cable manifacturers that use such wire. and IMHO there is no adverse effect to the audio.

btw, I believe that the wire can be purchased so abundantly and easily because its standard for military, aerospace and nasa use for electronic wiring, isnt it? while teflon insulated copper is not used by any of these, and has to be specially made on rare occasions?


EDIT: found out what DBT is. Edited.
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