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The GRADO SR-60 Impressions Thread - Page 12

post #166 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langrath
Is it some older type that was uncomfortable?
That has more to do with 'sound tweaking' w/r/t ear distance, more bass = closer placement and bowl = gets the most farther distance. Also foam density plays important role, but with the wide number of pads variables and people's preference thrown in, they make a good and fun debate to watch.
post #167 of 865
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
... I wouldn't choose phones based on its impedance curve =) ...



Freq resp curves show how a product would 'sound' like in a very basic term, while impedance will roughly show how well an amp can drive them. Low imp transducer will demand more current or something like that (no EE here =).

Its not that simple in reality. Impedance is a function of capacitive reactance, inductive reactance and resistance. If there is a "peak" at any frequenxy it means that there is HIGH reactance at that frequency (resistance of the coil is a constant) and how this peak affects the sound depends on XL and XC at this frequency.

XC = 1/2*pi*f*c Therefore inversely proportional to frequency. A low frequecy will result in higher XC

XL = 2*pi*f*L Therefore directly proportional to frequency. A high frequency will result in higher XL

Therefore - if the graph really is as rsaavedra posted (if measured accurately and scientifically) Then the Senn HD-595 has a peaking of Impedance at the lower frequencies. This is because of a more "capacitive" nature of the coil of the driver. As a result there is attenuation at those frequencies.

Which is probably why I have complained about the bass shy sound of the HD-595.
post #168 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by appar111
Anyone tried any other colors when dying the Senn pads?
I'm quite sure I saw a blue and violet ones, most likely on the other site. Although I prefer black pads myself, I'm a bit worried ended up with black ring around my ears. =)
post #169 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langrath
What on earth is wrong with the pads of Grado SR60? Is it some older type that was uncomfortable? I find the pads extremly soft, big and comfortable.

Georg
Nothing is wrong with the stock pads on the SR-60 (commonly referred to as the "comfies" due to, you guessed it, their comfort), but the supra-aural design means the cups press your ears against your head. This isn't a bad thing, as such, but for people like myself that wear glasses, it can be very uncomfortable after a while to have these metal bits being driven into your skull and ears from the pressure. This isn't a unique problem to the SR-60, but rather one to almost all headphones designed this way. If I take off my glasses, the headphones immediately become much more comfortable.
post #170 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari
Which is probably why I have complained about the bass shy sound of the HD-595.
Which can be easily defeated by the bass heavy sound of your beloved HD-650.

That sr325, hd202, k101 and ur20 comparison came from same headroom chart which rsaavedra used, and simply show that a flat impedance curves relate very little to sound quality.
post #171 of 865
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
Which can be easily defeated by the bass heavy sound of your beloved HD-650.
I dont know what you are getting at. AND I dont have the HD-650s anymore.

Quote:
That sr325, hd202, k101 and ur20 comparison came from same headroom chart which rsaavedra used, and simply show that a flat impedance curves relate very little to sound quality.
NO it doesnt necessarily translate to better sound. But it does translate to a more "correct" technical design. To maintain the nominal impedance across the entire frequency spectrum means this :-

* Negligible coil capacitance
* Negligible coil inductance

isnt that a good thing? For me it sure means that the design is better.
post #172 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari
Which is probably why I have complained about the bass shy sound of the HD-595.
Sounds encouraging for my liking. So I don't have to expect a bass hump, but rather a depression, from my "about 200 ohms output imp. amp." + HD595 ?

But then, HD650, HD600, HD580 all have the same peaky impedance.
Here's a fine "height of the peak" ranking : HD600 > HD580 > HD595 > HD650 .

And Meier Audio has a graph in its site where it shows how 150 ohm and 470 ohm amp impedances will cause humps at 100 Hz and slight attenuations at the higher end on HD600 and DT931.

So?


Edit: Corrected the ranking above.
post #173 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
I'm quite sure I saw a blue and violet ones, most likely on the other site. Although I prefer black pads myself, I'm a bit worried ended up with black ring around my ears. =)
That's why I don't want to do it myself--- but those yellow pads are just ugly on the Grados!
post #174 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea
I myself would like to have them in my (small) collection. But at 140€ I wouldn't buy them. If at the American price tag I might rush to the shop before even making up my mind .
I found MS1 to have smoother sound compared to sr60/80 - and their online price is about usd 100. If you really need sr60 in particular then why not buy used ? The pads are easily removed and sr60 seem to take beating anyway.
post #175 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
I found MS1 to have smoother sound compared to sr60/80 - and their online price is about usd 100. If you really need sr60 in particular then why not buy used ? The pads are easily removed and sr60 seem to take beating anyway.
Thank you ... but not that I exactly really need it. It's more a transient idea that was creeping into my mind.
post #176 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari
I dont know what you are getting at. AND I dont have the HD-650s anymore.
That refers to your reasoning that 595 peaking impedance led to attenuation of low frequency. HD650 have similar peak with quite different bass presentation to 595, therefore senn's peak at low freq was not the real cause of different bass level.

Quote:
Therefore - if the graph really is as rsaavedra posted (if measured accurately and scientifically) Then the Senn HD-595 has a peaking of Impedance at the lower frequencies. This is because of a more "capacitive" nature of the coil of the driver. As a result there is attenuation at those frequencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsferrari
NO it doesnt necessarily translate to better sound. But it does translate to a more "correct" technical design.
.
.
isnt that a good thing? For me it sure means that the design is better.
I agree flatter imp curve is a better one realtively to humpy 'one' and would be better for the amp. However I'm sure there's some kind of design trade off since we can see akg, senn and koss are quite competent in designing phones with flat impedance curves. Interestingly their better sounding or top models almost always bear high and peaky impedance curve.

Another thing to consider is maybe the impedance effect also takes place in log form ? If we look closely at those flat 30ish ohm lines, they also show some kind of peaks but in a much smaller scale. Since headroom chart imp axis can't be scaled down, every variation below 100 ohms will tend to look like ruler flat on 600 ohms scale.
post #177 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea
Thank you ... but not that I exactly really need it. It's more a transient idea that was creeping into my mind.
I was very tempted to get MS1 myself since they sound like a refined sr60/80, especially in the treble area. Luckily sanity kicked in at the right time. =)
post #178 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
I was very tempted to get MS1 myself since they sound like a refined sr60/80, especially in the treble area. Luckily sanity kicked in at the right time. =)
Hehe, this sanity is a value we headfiers need not lose trace of. We're exposed.


And to support your argument above, the PX100 has an impedance curve about as flat as the Grados.
post #179 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
... I wouldn't choose phones based on its impedance curve =) ...
Didn't mean to suggest that, I wouldn't either. Not even based on their freq. response curves alone either. A combination of graphs might influence a decision (e.g. HD650's == nice freq. response + lowest distortion), but still, hearing is believing.
post #180 of 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nak Man
Interestingly their better sounding or top models almost always bear high and peaky impedance curve.
Yes, I'm guessing that compensates for a naturally high response of the drivers in those frequencies. So that the two factors ideally cancel each other ending up in a smooth and appropriately flat final frequency response.
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