Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) › If I have a power conditioner, why do I need better power cords?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

If I have a power conditioner, why do I need better power cords?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Help...
Which statement below is true:

1. My power conditioner (Monster HTS5000) is already providing my components with "clean power", negating the value of adding an expensive after-market power cord.

2. Having a power conditioner reduces but does not completely eliminate the value of adding an expensive after-market power cord.

3. A good power cord will improve the sound equally whether or not I have a power conditioner.

markl
post #2 of 22
#2 has worked best for me.
post #3 of 22
I've never touched power tweaks in my life but...

If you treat the power conditioner / plain wall socket as 'source'
And the cables as signal cables, like the ones you use between the amp and phones...

Then wouldn't it be important to have a good signal coming out of the source in the first place before spending money on the cable? I.e. no point in getting the best cable to preserve the signal when it is already getting fscked up at the source

Hmm ?

Joe
post #4 of 22
It is a simple matter to prove to yourself, since it doesn't matter what any of us think, get a couple cables on a 30 day trail and try in your system.

I guess #2 would be the most accurate of your 3 choices, I also see you have the modded Sony SACD, did you notice that they always remove the cheap captive AC cord and put IEC recepticle so you can use improved aftermarket cord?

One must always use cost perspective since AC cords do improve sound, but on a relatively inexpensive headphone amp a $300+ AC cord wouldn't make much sense.

I think if you did a poll at Audiogon of people with 10K or higher systems, I would guess @99% use aftermarket AC cords regardless of what power conditioner is used. Notice how PS Audio is selling several AC cords for use through out your system,
even though they make very high end power conditioners.
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
If you treat the power conditioner / plain wall socket as 'source' And the cables as signal cables, like the ones you use between the amp and phones...

Then wouldn't it be important to have a good signal coming out of the source in the first place before spending money on the cable? I.e. no point in getting the best cable to preserve the signal when it is already getting fscked up at the source

Hmm ?
ICs are in the audio signal path so of course they can affect the sound. Power cables are not. They never touch the actual audio signal. BTW, I have a kick-ass source with a replaceable power cord, so that's one of the places I'm considering upgrading to a better cord.

Still need more advice here. Anyone else have any thoughts?

markl
post #6 of 22

AC Cords

Hi Markl,

I don't know why - but aftermarket power cords do effect the sound.

I use Accuphase PS-1200 and PS-500 power conditioners.

Changing the power-cord from the wall to the conditioners had no discernible effect (as I suspected).

Changing the power-cord between the conditioner and the component (Marantz SA-1 and the EAR HP-4) dramatically changed the sound.

I don't believe that I got much if any "change" with the new powercord on my main amplifier - it too is plugged into the conditioners.

The things I've heard as explanations are to do with:

reduced capacitance (I think)
reduced impedance
effect of ferrites to absorb/reduce EMI/RFI interference
"ability" to "cope" with hgh currents


At the end of the day, the powercord is an integral part of your component and is part of its "power circuit". As nothing in the world is perfect, then the power transformers used will be effected to some degree by the cable sticking out the back.

Go for a few and see what effect they have. The Electraglide Genghis Khan and the Shunyata Anaconda have had good reviews...

--Jatinder
post #7 of 22
I don't think you can go wrong using these:

http://www.quail.com/greendot/

I use them, and are a slight improvement over regular power cords. 
Anything more expensive than those IMO is a sugar-coated scam.  Just make sure that your power cords have green
dots, and you will be fine.
post #8 of 22
I bought 4 Absolute Power Cords off Audiogon and plugged 3 of em throughout my system...one for the speaker amp, one for the 9000ES, one for my headphone amp. If there's a difference, I didn't hear it. I particularly A/Bed the 9000ES cord, and really couldn't hear anything different. Oh well. My system looks prettier and more impressive now at least.
post #9 of 22
I also use the quails, unterminated on the IEC side and use the WATTGATE WG-320-CLR IEC connector from parts express. I can thus have the power cord the exact length I need for my application.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
I am familiar with the Absolute cords, as those are the other "budget" cables. Do a search on them at audiogon and you will find lots of disgruntled former owners, so I'm not surprised they did little for you, Vertigo.

Also, aren't they the same as the Quail?

markl
post #11 of 22
markl, you got any links to those bad reviews by any chance? Might just convince me to ditch mines on Audiogon and move up the chain.

I had originally wanted either the Acoustic Zen Tsunami or the Totem Acoustic Urt, but I thought I'd use the Absolutes as a springboard. It sure isn't getting me off the ground at this point.
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
Do a search in their cable section.
post #13 of 22
I never believe in Power Cord until I got myself a $10 green dot (16awg) to replace a stock cord (18awg) for Corda. The difference is huge, much more than the affect of HTS2000. I just can't understand why.

Over these 2 weeks, I play with cheap power cords a lot. (Time that I need to choose a winner). I use a 60W light bulb to 'burn-in' the cord for 48 hours.

-Computer grade 16awg vs Green dot 16awg.
Green dot wins. (3 min)
? Quality of the jacks ?

-Computer grade 18awg w/ shield vs Computer grade 16awg.
16 awg wins overall. (2x2 hours - daytime, nightime, 5-6 CD)
? The bigger, the better ?

-Home Depot DIY 12awg ($15) vs Computer grade 16 awg.
HD wins, need a week to burn-in (4x2 hours - 2daytime, 2 nightime)
? The bigger, the better ?

-HD 12awg vs Surplus 7awg
HD wins (3 min)
? So the bigger, is not better (same jacks) ?

-HD 12awg vs Green dot 16awg
Green dot wins (3 min)
? the green dot is that magical ?

I use the cord on Corda only, S9000es w/ stock cord, 50% AKG501, 50% DT931, SR325, HD580, V6. I found out the Green dot is the best for my setup under $20. So I play with it a bit more. Here is what really surprise me.

- The longer, the better
Full lenght (3.5m) vs short lenght (1m) vs very short (10cm)
Clearly, the longer the better. But I can't hear difference between 3.5m vs 2.5, 2, 1.75m

- Cut = Uncut
with DIY IEC sounds same with original IEC

- DIY aluminium foil makes difference
I cover the whole cord with ~2 layers of aluminium foil, it does sound better. However, I can't hear any difference between w or w/o drain wire.


Although, these experiment is not very scientific nor very controlled. I can explain the affect of aluminium foil, but I can't understand why the lenght, the awg, the Green dot AC male plug can affect the sound on Corda. The improvement of the music can not be ignored. I am now a cable believer. However, I won't spend hundreds of dollar on cable. IMO, cable fine-tunes the sound of my system, not changing the characteristic.

Hope my discovery helps

Discoman
post #14 of 22
<<<<<<
Do a search on them at audiogon and you will find lots of disgruntled former owners, so I'm not surprised they did little for you, Vertigo.
>>>>>>

Mark
I think that is not correct, or at least not in proper perspective. I post regularly at Audiogon, and the big discussion a year ago was could this $50 dollar cord possibly compete with $300+ plus cords, and of course then you had owners of very expensive cords defending their turf. Also you will occasionally have guys who sell their own cords for $50 come on and say theirs is better, but that is hardly an objective opinion.

When you do see someone say they sold thier Absolute it is for a much more expensive cord, not for another $50 cord. Right now the cable merry-go-round many are buying Virtual Dynamics, but that will change in 6 months to the next hot brand. I think this is what you are referring to, there were a couple members who previously had Absolutes and upgraded to $300 Virtual Dynamics,
but I know these guys and they change cables often. There are members with very high end systems that use absolutes, including David Chesky studios.

Also they are custom made and have nothing to do with Quail cords.

I have tried some $300+ cords I like better, I even like the AZ tsunami that vertigo mentions better, but 7x the price it should be better.

But just because Vertigo says he hears no improvement, lets not
conclude that they are not very good for other members to try especially for $50.

BTW last time I bought some Absolutes 6 months ago, the dealer told me he had sold @7,000 cords through Audiogon advertising only.........you don't see many for sale there.
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Excellent points Darkangel.

Never ever listen to Vertigo.

markl
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Cables, Power, Tweaks, Speakers, Accessories (DBT-Free Forum) › If I have a power conditioner, why do I need better power cords?