Custom-3 announcements and impressions

[xnothingpoetic]

Originally Posted by freeone-j

I've personally experienced armature burn-in, you can't make an definitve statement like that! With all do respect, I disagree.

Mental burn in and warm-up- sure. But there really is no physical burn in for IEMs.

The sound is the same as it is now as it was out of the box- but your perception of the sound has changed as your mind got used to the new sound signature.

I notice when I go form EQ to flat EQ on my er4s', at first they sound thin and analytical, but after just a few short seconds, I can apreciate the new sound.
And again going from flat to EQ- it sounds a tad dark, but I soon adjust to it within seconds.

[tnmike1]

OK guys. Thanks for the "glasses" update. TIme to order mine I suppose.(Custom 3, that is, not glasses)

[freeone-j]

Originally Posted by xnothingpoetic

Mental burn in and warm-up- sure. But there really is no physical burn in for IEMs.

The sound is the same as it is now as it was out of the box- but your perception of the sound has changed as your mind got used to the new sound signature.

I notice when I go form EQ to flat EQ on my er4s', at first they sound thin and analytical, but after just a few short seconds, I can apreciate the new sound.
And again going from flat to EQ- it sounds a tad dark, but I soon adjust to it within seconds.

I understand and agree with those statements, it has happened to me also. I also believe at somewhere between 300 to 400 hrs my Etys took a physical change. I noticed that the harshness that some complain about, went away and treble had more extension and was more pleasant, w/better frequency separation, IMO. I would also like to mention that I used white noise during the burn-in process and I stayed away from bass heavy music, during my times of listening. Now IMO, my ER4Ps' play bass frequencies well.

[OracleGuy]

I'm pretty sure I've read statements from other IEM manufacturers stating that no burn-in is required for micro-armature drivers.

Micro-armature drivers do not need a burn-in period.
-or-
Micro-armature drivers do not need burn-in, period.

As you prefer!

Perhaps Prof. Thump could weigh-in on the issue?

[Professor Thump]

Originally Posted by PeterDLai

Yikes, that's ironic. Usually the over-the-ear designs tend towards eliminating microphonics.

Perhaps the IMAGE is just very good at reducing microphonic effects? It does seem to come out of the ears at a slight angle, which may prevent the cable from making a big impact.

I will fill you in on a little developmental history of C3 ( I like your new name... Now I can call custom shells what they are...but I digress). Originally we experimented with woven cloth cable on IMAGE. We wanted the quality of the cable to feel old fashion or classical. These early prototypes with cloth cables on IMAGE were very noisy and microphonic but they were also SLA's (Stereo Lythogrophy) so the tails were not soft and added to the noise. So we optimized the tail to attenuate or diffusion the transmission of energy telegraphing up the cable. To improve this further we elected to use the smooth soft cable that you see on IMAGE today. This fixed the cable noise.

For Custom there is natural attenuation of mechanical vibration due to the over ear approach, but it does not totally go away so you MUST CYNCH the cable behind your head. Now you have several points of low Q placement dampening the cable system. If you don't cynch the cable it will be worse. This allowed us to use the cloth cable which is much better at flexing in cold temperatures and give you that high quality tactile feel.

Hope this clears up the noise issue.

Keep Thumpin!

[freeone-j]

Professor what's your opinion of PM (armature) burn-in?

[Professor Thump]

Originally Posted by OracleGuy

I'm pretty sure I've read statements from other IEM manufacturers stating that no burn-in is required for micro-armature drivers.

Micro-armature drivers do not need a burn-in period.
-or-
Micro-armature drivers do not need burn-in, period.

As you prefer!

Perhaps Prof. Thump could weigh-in on the issue?

Folks, I don't want to discourage anyone from doing things that they feel improve their sound. It's a free country and a partially free world. On the other hand I haven't personally experienced this phenomenon in balanced armatures.

As a well defined process Klipsch exercises every "moving coil" transducer it baselines for design work. If the compliance is not naturalized your Thiele Small Parameters are compromised. The driver is the heart of the system. If it is not characterized properly every thing down stream is compromised... Box Tuning, Crossovers... EQ. So "burn in" I can understand and measure in a moving coil. This being said it is very subtle to the final outcome of the response in time and frequency.

[HiFlight]

[QUOTE=PeterDLai;3772501]How does the sound of the IMAGE compare to your other IEMs?[/QUOTE

I like it better than any of my other IEMs. The overall sense of realism seems better. Imaging is also excellent for an IEM, which tells me that the L&R phones are very well matched. I would say that the sound is closest to my Atrios, except with a little more midrange warmth and body.

I'm not sure how much the sense of realism is influenced by the comfort, but since much of the perceived sound of an IEM is influenced by psychoacoustics, I am sure that comfort subjectively improves the sound of the Image.

It is, hands down, the most comfortable phone I have owned.
It does take a bit of time to select the right gel, and to fine-tune the orientation of the gel on the device.

The Image seems to be very nicely balanced, with accurate fundemental bass when it is present in the recording, and highs that are able to reproduce the complex harmonics that make snares sound like snares instead of white noise.

While the Image sounds great when amplified, it performs very well when plugged directly into a player with no external amplification at all. They also seem to be more tolerant of poorer source material than many other highly detailed IEMs.

Rather than being highly analytical, as are some of the other noted IEMs, they sound warm and lush. I can listen to them for hours without fatigue, either from the sound or from a physical comfort standpoint.

I guess this is the long answer to a short question!!!

[Balor NG]

Originally Posted by Professor Thump

Folks, I don't want to discourage anyone from doing things that they feel improve their sound. It's a free country and a partially free world. On the other hand I haven't personally experienced this phenominon in balanced armatures.

As a well defined process Klipsch excersizes every "moving coil" transducer it baselines for design work. If the compliance is not naturalized your Thiele Small Parameters are compromised. The driver is the heart of the system. If it is not characterized properly every thing down stream is compromized... Box Tuning, Crossovers... EQ. So "burn in" I can understand and measure in a moving coil. This being said it is very sutle to the final outcome of the response in time and frequency.

I think that is very roundabout way of saying: "Burning in armatures is like burning in CPUs: they either work as intended or not at all, but if you feel it's making its sound better - knock yourself out."

[PeterDLai]

Sorry it took so long, but I posted my first impressions in a new thread in the normal headphone forums here.

I feel making a thread there will bode better for promoting Klipsch's new line as most readers will be looking there.

I'm actually very curious to hear what others have to say now because I myself have nothing to compare them with directly at the moment.

[onlychild]

Sorry guys, but I think I have changed my mind. The Image are staying and the C3's are going back.

I had a chance to really test them out on my travel from Chicago to Atlanta. I tested them on the train, then the plane. Here is why I have changed my mind:

I just can not get a good fit on my right ear with the C3. I have tried and tried but at the end I only ended up with a sore right ear. I tried all the different tips and kind of wish Klipsch had some foams as well as the silicon tips. I also have a little more difficulty getting a good fit on my right ear with the Image, but no where the kind of difficulty I have with the C3. The C3 are also a pain to put on and take off when you compare them to the Image. The Image are just too comfortable and easy to take on and off that I think the slight sound advantage in the highs is not worth the extra hassle for me.

The C3 have less bass than the Image. Even though I could not get a proper fit with the C3, there where a few times I did get a proper fit and the bass was not as good as on the Image. Also, I was able to get alot more isolation with the Image than the C3s.

The Images sound really really good for how comfortable and easy they are to put on.

Right now, I am on my way to Fry's to pick up some SE530 to compare to the Image. Will post more impressions later on.

[PeterDLai]

Originally Posted by onlychild

Right now, I am on my way to Fry's to pick up some SE530 to compare to the Image. Will post more impressions later on.

Wow, hardcore. Go onlychild!

It's funny because I've found that I'm having more difficulty with my right ear than my left as well. And I can definitely see where the IMAGE would win in comfort and insertion/removal.

[gdpeck]

My initial impressions here

@ onlychild: I have the same issue with my right ear. The Shure black "olive" foamies solved this for me. YMMV, but it's probably cheaper trying them out than trying out SE530s. On the other hand I'd love to hear a Custom-3/Image/SE530 comparison.

[HipHapa]

onlychild... Any thoughts on the C-3 compared to the SE530? Thanks!

[pretzelb]

Originally Posted by onlychild

I just can not get a good fit on my right ear with the C3. I have tried and tried but at the end I only ended up with a sore right ear. I tried all the different tips and kind of wish Klipsch had some foams as well as the silicon tips. I also have a little more difficulty getting a good fit on my right ear with the Image, but no where the kind of difficulty I have with the C3. The C3 are also a pain to put on and take off when you compare them to the Image. The Image are just too comfortable and easy to take on and off that I think the slight sound advantage in the highs is not worth the extra hassle for me.

The C3 have less bass than the Image. Even though I could not get a proper fit with the C3, there where a few times I did get a proper fit and the bass was not as good as on the Image. Also, I was able to get alot more isolation with the Image than the C3s.

The Images sound really really good for how comfortable and easy they are to put on.

I need more time to evaluate but I can see what you are saying and totally agree with some of it. But, I THINK I finally got a good fit with the big gels on the C3 so I need to test more for comfort. The flanges on both were just nasty to me - I think I'm not a flange user. The funny thing was the medium gels that came with the Image fit perfectly right from the start.

The only thing left to figure out is the comfort difference (if there is one) and the sound difference. I think the gap between the Image and C3 might be bigger than you think but if you can't get a good fit then it's really not going to matter. I can hear improved sound with the C3 as expected, it's almost like trying a headphone with and without an amp. Is it good enough to beat the Image? Not sure yet.

I do totally agree with you on the ease of use for the Image. It's going to be hard to pick against that. They just are so easy to get in and out and that is important for me at work where I plan to use them mostly.