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The key phrase is "given the right circumstances". Try shooting a wedding with a point and shoot. By the time you achieve AF-lock, you've already missed the moment.
I can't get the bokeh I want with a compact either either because of the small sensor. I'm not discounting the photographer. A good eye can frame and time the perfect photos, but unless the conditions are perfect, regular equipment isn't gonna cut it.
Pro equipment like you said is for extreme situations, and some of us only use our SLRs in those situations. I only use my DSLR when I'm shooting shows. Otherwise it's on my desk and my GX100 is in my pouch or pocket.
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And that's the distinction that bigshot is missing. His "typical DSLR user" is *gasp* a regular consumer, it would appear. And, lo and behold, the consumer-grade lenses really are good enough for them. But the fact of the matter is that for people that actually use their equipment in demanding professional situations, the pro lenses are worth it for a lot more than just build quality.
Yes, if you're going to spend your life shooting daytime landscapes at F8, a consumer zoom will probably do you fine. If you ever want to do ANYTHING else - shoot subjects that actually move, shoot at night, get sharp portraits with bokeh, whatever - ANYTHING but static daylight shots - a pro lens can often be more than worth its cost.
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And that's the distinction that bigshot is missing. His "typical DSLR user" is *gasp* a regular consumer, it would appear. And, lo and behold, the consumer-grade lenses really are good enough for them. But the fact of the matter is that for people that actually use their equipment in demanding professional situations, the pro lenses are worth it for a lot more than just build quality.
Yes, if you're going to spend your life shooting daytime landscapes at F8, a consumer zoom will probably do you fine. If you ever want to do ANYTHING else - shoot subjects that actually move, shoot at night, get sharp portraits with bokeh, whatever - ANYTHING but static daylight shots - a pro lens can often be more than worth its cost.
I think you just gotta accept that fact that big shoot is stuck in his mindset, the same way we are stuck in ours. Let the comforting thought be that deep down, we know the truth.
There is no question in my mind, pro lenses give consistently better results for me. So far, the only people that I've seen try and debate this have needed to add a lot of 'qualifiers' as to why that isn't always the case. We both know what that means.
Off topic, I know, but this has been bugging me for a while in reading this thread... what in the hell is bokeh???
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__________________ "For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three."
Moon Audio modded Original CD-2008MK-II / de Almeida Signature Shadow XLR / McAlister Audio Massive Attack / Headphile modded BlackGold recabled AKG K340 OR APureSound V3 recabled Grado RS-1
The key phrase is "given the right circumstances". Try shooting a wedding with a point and shoot. By the time you achieve AF-lock, you've already missed the moment.
I shot a wedding with a Mamiya RB67 once. No AF at all. No auto exposure either. It wasn't hard, it just took an assistant to help coordinate the shots. I doubt if I'd have any problem shooting an outdoor wedding with a point and shoot. The only real limitation would be the flash.
And that's the distinction that bigshot is missing. His "typical DSLR user" is *gasp* a regular consumer, it would appear.
GASP! How horrifying! Who let the riff raff in?!
There's only one distinction to being a pro, and it isn't what it says on your lenses. It's the ability to make a living shooting pictures. Great equipment is helpful, but it doesn't make you a pro.
I am a *gasp* a regular consumer myself. I studied to become a professional photographer, but drifted into design instead. I have some lenses that say "pro" on them, and some that don't. I'm able to make great pictures with all of them. Heck, I'm even able to make great pictures with a $200 point and shoot. If you can't make great pictures without having thousands of dollars of electronics and glass hanging around your neck, that says more about your ability as a photographer than it does about the quality of your equipment. If you look down on other photographers because of their equipment and not their ability to create a great photograph, that says more about you.
If I was a cartoonist, I'd draw a cartoon of a fella sitting on a couch surrounded by camera bags. He'd be pointing a camera with a huge lens at his bare feet. The caption would read, "Look at that BEAUTIFUL bokeh!"
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