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Some will likely disagree here, but a huge community of scientists has all but proven (absolute proof being impossible) that every living entity on Earth is as it is as the result of evolution by natural selection - survival of the fittest, as some call it, but it's more about reproduction than survival. In other words, "we" are here because not every living being survives long enough to reproduce. If there were no death, "we" would still be a bunch of simple, self-replicating carbon-based molecules, completely incapable of having this discussion. Death is one of the most essential components of any ecosystem and any society - without it nothing we know would be recognizable. How, then, can anything, human or otherwise, me or you, have an intrinsic right to life?
I consider myself an environmentalist, and I would never willfully purchase something made from an endangered species, but I'm pretty sure that's mostly because I like seeing them alive, not because they have any intrinsic right not to be made into silly little trinkets for our petty enjoyment.
Come on, are we having a debate or are we just repeating opinions ad nauseum? Luminette, we know you think killing things is wrong. Now tell us why, and be logical about it, or you will not convince anyone.
Steve, if I shoot a critter and leave it to the coyotes and maggots, does that satisfy your requirement that the life energy be passed on? I probably won't do it, but I'm curious anyway
I think it's OK to kill another living being as long as you eat it... That way the life energy is passed on to another living being.
Just don't let me babysit your kids.
See ya
Steve
Then why was daummer locked up? (Ball! Jussst a bit outside).
I would agree that causing the death of an animal for the purpose of making wallets is wrong. I would also think it a waste of resources to not use it. If the hides were harvested from naturally dead animals, would it be ok?
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Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
.... But then again, not everyone is really as "into" music as folks like us who hang out at places like this.
I would throw one of my Far Side books on the scanner at this point, but it only generates tiff files, which will not post here. Be that as it may, the cartoon shows an elephant on a crutch, one hind leg a bandaged stump. He is talking on a pay phone, and saying, "WHAT?! They turned it into a wastebasket??"
Funny but sick.
To address acidbasement's assertion, I'm of the minority group on how we got here. He's an oozer, I'm a zapper. I won't even debate this or discuss it further, as few things bring the padlock faster than that...
Laz
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Welcome aboard. You are now looking at the objective reality: please stay focused.
Why, oh why, didn't I take the BLUE fez?!
But you keep looking over your shoulder to see if I am there.
TEAM Mac//TEAM STAX//TEAM MUSTAPHA//TEAM HORRI-FI//TEAM TOO MANY TEAMS
Moderator: Headphoneus Supremus: The first to organize an International Head-Fi Meet (2006)
Originally Posted by Barock
That would probably be Ok, though there's really no reason to kill elephants for wallets etc. It's just mean.
Have you read the thread and my post!!! It is not from elephants, it is from cows and pressed with an elephant-like look. Hello!
Originally Posted by penguindude
The nature of the OP's question is one of politics, the politics of ethics. So it's kinda hard to keep it non-political.
Politics and ethics are two entirely different issues. This thread can remain politic-free if people don't want it closed.
If I go to a bank ATM and I go to make a transaction and B4 I start, the machine issues me $200, it is an ethical decision to give back to the bank, something that doesn't belong to me. It is not a political one.
It is also called "scruples".
Since a cow is bread and raised for it's meat and hide, then it's up to you whether or not you believe it's OK to support and utilize these actions. This is whether or not a government sanctions it. It is a personal belief, not a political one.
Also, please don't bring religious beliefs into this.
Politics and religion cause huge "un-win-able" arguements on Head-Fi and are against the TOU.
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-My house was built for lovin'...not a theater of war.
-Realize it's harder to find your own voice, then to follow one, already in the air.
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Music is my recreational drug...I need a dose, everyday!
Have you read the thread and my post!!! It is not from elephants, it is from cows and pressed with an elephant-like look. Hello!
...
Also, please don't bring religious beliefs into this.
Politics and religion cause huge "un-win-able" arguements on Head-Fi and are against the TOU.
Well of course we all know the thread got off topic, don't we? I thought we were just playin' around by this point.
Anyway, it seems that many philosophical and ethical discussions end up unresolved due to differences in fundamental assumptions - granted this is often due to differences in religion. I don't know how we can have philosophical arguments without returning eventually to these assumptions - not to argue about whose are best, but simply to acknowledge that they form the basis of our ethics, and perhaps to realize that we might have beliefs about what's right and wrong that do not flow logically from them.
It is not from elephants, it is from cows and pressed with an elephant-like look. Hello! 
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