Beatles Revolver - MFSL - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

omegaman · #1 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 06:22 PM

I have a question about this album. If I listen carefully I can hear the first line of the next song very quietly before the song starts, could this be :-

a ) My cartridge is set up wrong ( I only hear it on this album )

b) The way the album is pressed

c) The way the album was recorded ( I can't hear it on the cd )

d) my ears ( I hope not )

e) my Imagination ( even worse )

f) none of the above

It's worse on "here there and everywhere" and it is not on every track ???

TheMarchingMule · #2 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 06:31 PM

1...2...3...4...1...2 ("3, Gooo!") *start funky guitar music and drums*

I used to have the MFSL version (now I have Revolver [Dr. Ebbetts PMC 7009; Matrix XEX 606-1]), and in every version I heard (sans today's loud, conpression iirc), it indeed starts quieter than the main song.

It's intentional, don't worry.

Oh, it's noticeable on "Here, There And Everywhere" too? Nope, this song is pretty much the same volume the whole way through.

Davey · #3 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 07:12 PM

Probably tape print through, happens all the time. Recording tape has metal oxide particles that are oriented with a magnetic field in the recording head, and they retain some of that magnetic charge. So if the tape is wound tightly and/or stored for a long period, one layer of the tape can impress a signal onto the layer above or below it. With a typical tape reel size and speed, the delay would be in the range of one to two seconds. You generally only notice it in the quiet lead-in to a song, hence it is often called pre-echo. On the CD they would probably just edit it out.

LFF · #4 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 10:00 PM

Davey could be right. If it is taken from the vinyl - it could also be groove echo.

I have heard this on LP's hundreds of times. The next song starts out at very low, low volume before it comes in full force. This is Groove Echo.

Davey · #5 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF

If it is taken from the vinyl - it could also be groove echo.

It's not taken from the vinyl, it is the vinyl

But yea, similar to tape print through, some of the hot cutter head action being transferred to the spiral groove already cut. Seems like MoFi would have recut it if it was that bad, but maybe not. In the old days the mastering engineer had to manually adjust the groove spacing on the lathe based on the sound from the preview head. It was an art. But most have used a computer and digital delay line since the 80s, which is why most vinyl goes through a digital stage. Some mastering houses still use an analog preview and digitize that for the computer. Much better.

LFF · #6 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

It's not taken from the vinyl, it is the vinyl

. Then it is probably groove echo.

omegaman · #7 (**permalink**) 12-30-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey

Probably tape print through, happens all the time. Recording tape has metal oxide particles that are oriented with a magnetic field in the recording head, and they retain some of that magnetic charge. So if the tape is wound tightly and/or stored for a long period, one layer of the tape can impress a signal onto the layer above or below it. With a typical tape reel size and speed, the delay would be in the range of one to two seconds. You generally only notice it in the quiet lead-in to a song, hence it is often called pre-echo. On the CD they would probably just edit it out.

I love this explanation ,and for me it's another reason to stick with vinyl. All adds to the analogue lure.

augustwest · #8 (**permalink**) 12-31-2007, 05:49 PM

"Probably tape print through, happens all the time. Recording tape has metal oxide particles that are oriented with a magnetic field in the recording head, and they retain some of that magnetic charge. So if the tape is wound tightly and/or stored for a long period, one layer of the tape can impress a signal onto the layer above or below it. With a typical tape reel size and speed, the delay would be in the range of one to two seconds. You generally only notice it in the quiet lead-in to a song, hence it is often called pre-echo. On the CD they would probably just edit it out."

This is absolutely correct. When audio recording tape has been stored improperly an effect called "tape print through" can occur. If you want to store tape for long term and wish to avoid this problem, you should store the tape "tails out". "Tails out", takes a little more time, but your tapes will be last longer over the long haul.

- augustwest