Updated: HifiMAN HM-801 Portable Music Player Preorder

[antonyfirst]

Some considerations:

-Unlike what has been stated by others, I am happy that the dac is a non-upsampling chip, since I think 24 bit upsampling converters have high chances to fake the sound. Other dac's based on the same Burrbrown chip, like the Opus 21, are well regarded for not having the upsampling glare proper of sources like the 840c and others. It has to be see how far the circuitry can bring the hifiman's chip, especially given the size limitations and the need for low power consumpion.

-Being a native rock listener, then come to classical, jazz and electronica, I don't consider gapless absolutely necessary in a portable, but I can understand others, like nc8000, feeling otherwise. A software update in this regard would be well appreciated and could increase the interest from classical listeners.
I'd be more interested in how quick and responsive the file browsing will be, especially if I had to use a 32gb sdhc card, holding lots of files.
Someone suggested Rockbox, but I personally think it's unlikey to happen. From a simple percentage of people interested in buying something as nichè as this HiFi-man, it's hard to think that Rockbox would use their resources to develop rockbox on it. It's legitimate to hpe that Head direct could contact them in future, depending also in how sales, as well as real use feedback, go.

-My next concern regards quality control, which must be higher than the first Minibox E+ amps: some of those units had to be sent back for repair due to working issues. The manufacturer isn't the same, so hopefully build quality will be higher and closer to Yuin products, anyway I think this is a crucial point for something this expensive and potentially delivering a lot.

-I'm fine with the battery life of eight hours, having owned players like the Rio Karma, the 4th gen iMod and the iRiver E10, which didn't last much longer. I am wondering if the player works also with an ac adaptor, useful for home source purposes. As to 32 sdhc, it's not bad for portable use since the card can be swapped, and an additional sdhc card takes next to no space (in the wallet or any pockets).

-The modular amp stage is intriguing and can offer some sound tweaking. I'd be especially happy for a modular amp using the same opamp as mini3 and pico, rather the ad8620 used in the Minibox or those used with iBasso amps. Question: will the amp have to be absolutely modular, or can people use portable amp that they already own? The second option, although taking more space in the pocket (or in a waist pouch), would offer a lot of tweaking even before more modular amplification stage will be available from the manufacturers, allowing people to use what they want and also save some pennies.

-Will warranty last the usual year, or given the price point of the product, more time?

Tony

[dfkt]

Originally Posted by antonyfirst

Someone suggested Rockbox, but I personally think it's unlikey to happen. From a simple percentage of people interested in buying something as nichè as this HiFi-man, it's hard to think that Rockbox would use their resources to develop rockbox on it. It's legitimate to hpe that Head direct could contact them in future, depending also in how sales, as well as real use feedback, go.

Rockbox porting doesn't work like that. There's no "Rockbox team" that decides which player to port Rockbox to. There has to be someone interested in getting Rockbox running on a device, and start coding. Since the Rockbox source is freely available and very well documented, Fang (or his coders/developers) could just use it and implement it on their hardware, completely free.

DocsIndex < Main < TWiki
NewPort < Main < TWiki

[antonyfirst]

Interesting. I didn't know this, and it leaves more room for hopes, as well as possible ways to proceed.

[KONAKONA]

Now I have to rethink that d10 purchase. :O

Looks really good though, if I do get one it will almost surely be better than the last 600$ brick I bought that went in my pocket (Silly Q5W, but hey the video playback looked good till it broke.)

[Scorche]

One thing that I don't see listed in these specifications is what SoC (System on a Chip or main processor) that is used in this device. Could you elucidate that please?

Originally Posted by dfkt

Rockbox porting doesn't work like that. There's no "Rockbox team" that decides which player to port Rockbox to. There has to be someone interested in getting Rockbox running on a device, and start coding. Since the Rockbox source is freely available and very well documented, Fang (or his coders/developers) could just use it and implement it on their hardware, completely free.

DocsIndex < Main < TWiki
NewPort < Main < TWiki

Just to add a bit, this certainly is how Rockbox porting works. That said, I personally would love to see Rockbox ported to a device with a manufacturer leading the way, and I think most other Rockbox devs would agree. If a manufacturer were to want to port Rockbox to their device, I am sure that they would receive help where they ask if we are capable of giving it (with time, documentation and device restraints).

Saying "Hard drive need too much energy" is a bit much of a blanket statement - especially when the device that it is being compared to in this instance (an iRiver H100 series) has a hard drive and gets much more battery life with a stock battery and can easily achieve over 24 hours with an upgraded battery. Of course the components are quite different in each device and will make plenty of difference, but the firmware can have quite a bit of impact on this as well - especially with how you might be scaling the SoC, disabling components when they aren't used, codec efficiency, how often you might be hitting the drive for data, how much RAM you have for audio data, etc. While I do not think that a hard drive would be best for this type of device due to potential noise, etc, I just wanted to chime in that the reason listed doesn't really cover it.

[Nankai]

Originally Posted by Scorche

Saying "Hard drive need too much energy" is a bit much of a blanket statement - especially when the device that it is being compared to in this instance (an iRiver H100 series) has a hard drive and gets much more battery life with a stock battery and can easily achieve over 24 hours with an upgraded battery.

Do you know how much current a working hifiman consuming? Do you know how much working current iriver is? Do you know how many percent current HM-801 spend on sound quality? Do you know how many percent current a regular consumr grade mp3 player spend on sound quality?

A car with five seats can run all day after refueling several gallon gas, but a single seat Jet Fighter will consume tons of oil to fly only two hours.

[KONAKONA]

About the battery bit, you gotta remember that the 801 is running an amp as well as the DAC and PDAP bit. If you are using a h120+D10, you have two different batteries, not to mention the D10 is running much lower voltage opamps and what-not.

Plus it doesn't look like there is room for a HD in the current form factor.

[Scorche]

Look, I think you need to read my post again without getting all huffy. I mentioned that of course there was very different components that have varying power draw. I simply was saying that the listed "reason" doesn't really cover the statement and too much of a blanket statement and there are various ways that power usage can be affected. There are reasons why Rockbox tends to increase a device's battery life once fully ported to a device. To say things about "percent current" dedicated to "sound quality" further reinforces this.

Also, you haven't mentioned the SoC that is inside the device. Could you please let us know what it is based off of?

[Edwood]

There is also the issue of acoustic noise and electrical noise that a Hard Drive adds.

Another reason the 32GB CF mod is so popular with the the iRiver iHP-1xx series.

-Ed

[Scorche]

Originally Posted by Edwood

There is also the issue of acoustic noise and electrical noise that a Hard Drive adds.

...which I mentioned, yes

[Nankai]

questions in FAQ.

1. Headphone output impedance and its mW per channel
FAQ 9. Please tell us headphone output impedance and its mW per channel.
Current headphone amplifier board design: 100mw - 16 ohm; 64mw - 32 ohm; 80mw - 150 ohm; 40mw - 300 ohm. It can easily boost HD580 and K240DF.
Modular Amplifier Bay called GanQi Bay. We will provide its spec detail to headphone amplifier builders.

2. How will UI be like
FAQ 7. How will UI be like?
UI will be similar to an ancient ipod.


3. Accessories it will include (Like 128GB SDHC card, digital input adaptor jack, etc.)
Accessory: Lithium polymer battery, External Power Supply, USB cable, mini-coaxial adapter

4. Warranty
Warranty policy: 30 days refund, 90 days free replacement and 1 year repair. Customers will be able to buy 2-year free repair warranty plan.

5. Battery and module upgrade possibilities
FAQ 10 The battery we currently provided is almost the best Lithium battery we can find. Four sure we will provide new battery for upgrading when battery factories can provide higher capacity battery in the future.


6. Is opamp OPA627AU, OPA627BP or cheapy OPA627AP (I'd immediately order ones if it's OPA627KM lol)
FAQ 12 The opamp is OPA627AU. We don't want to use this most expensive chip and "electricity eater" at the very beginning. We made our decision after a test between 10 different opamps. OPA627 is the most appropriate opamp in this circuit.

7. How much can I DIY with this ones (like opamp rolling, sound customizing in circuit like compass, etc.)
FAQ 8. How much can I DIY with this ones?
I can not image how you will modify this little guy. The board is so small, and full of expensive SMD components. In addition, there is no DIP socket on the board, or anywhere in the player.

[Nankai]

Most MP3 players are like those walkman or discman after 1993. They add too much concept which is harmful to sound quality, such as eq. They try to make the product as small as they can. They try to make the working current as little as they can, so that they can show off their new tech of long battery life. They successfully made most of their customers believe that "fancy" or "cool" is more important than sound quality.

I may not have enough new knowledge about some novel concepts in current mp3 players, but I do understand how to make a portable hifi. During last ten years, I owned and studied almost all sony walkman/discman and AIWA Cassette Bay from 1980 to 2000. Most my study is about those ancient players before 1990. I don't think any mp3 players can beat an old discman or walkman (For example, SONY D-25 DISCMAN and AIWA HS-P9 Cassette bay) in sound quality.

[Drag0n]

Is the battery available anywhere?


Can you also play this on an adaptor or external battery pack?


Can an AC adapter work without the battery incase the battery dies?

Can it use 16gb SDHC cards?


Being it has USB......does that mean it can also play off a portable USB Hard Drive?

[Nankai]

Originally Posted by Drag0n

Is the battery available anywhere?

The battery will be availabe when we release the player.

Originally Posted by Drag0n

Can you also play this on an adaptor or external battery pack?

Yes

Originally Posted by Drag0n

Can an AC adapter work without the battery incase the battery dies?

Yes

Originally Posted by Drag0n

Can it use 16gb SDHC cards?

Yes

Originally Posted by Drag0n

Being it has USB......does that mean it can also play off a portable USB Hard Drive?

You will have to copy files from the usb drive to a SD card.

[Drag0n]

elucidate - My first language is english and ive never heard of this word. I was able to figure out the meaning in context, but alone id have never figured out the meaning. Fangs first language is not english. Maybe we should keep our english more common when asking him questions so he can answer easier.