Will Headroom Ever Build an Electrostatic Headphone Amp and Headphone - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

Scottsmrnyc · #1 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 02:57 PM

I am just throwing this idea out? With all the products made and sold by Headroom, what are the possiblities that Headroom would come out with a series of electrostatic headphone amps and electrostatic headphones? What do you think about this Tyll and others at Headroom
Scottsmrnyc

Skin · #2 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 03:14 PM

think the market is too niche for them to even bother, especially now

dolstein · #3 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottsmrnyc

I am just throwing this idea out? With all the products made and sold by Headroom, what are the possiblities that Headroom would come out with a series of electrostatic headphone amps and electrostatic headphones? What do you think about this Tyll and others at Headroom
Scottsmrnyc

HeadRoom make electrostatic headphones? Doubt it. I don't think they've ever made headphones.

An electrostatic headphone amp? I'd certainly be interested, but I agree with the previous post that it's probably too small a market to attrack HeadRoom's interest. Which is a shame, as I don't think there are any electrostatic headphone amps available with a cross-feed circuit.

Perhaps a better idea would be for HeadRoom to make a stand alone cross-feed processor for use with other headphone amplifiers. I believe that years ago they sold a device like that. Maybe now they could add the fine tuning capabilities of the Phonitor.

wnmnkh · #4 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 08:14 PM

Electrostatic market is very, very small.

I concur for stand-alone crossfeed processor!

TheSloth · #5 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 09:09 PM

'Stats in any way, shape or form, and a standalone crossfeed processor would all be total wastes of HeadRoom's time and money.

Did anyone read Tyll's thread about how difficult things are for HeadRoom these days?

dolstein · #6 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth

'Stats in any way, shape or form, and a standalone crossfeed processor would all be total wastes of HeadRoom's time and money.

Did anyone read Tyll's thread about how difficult things are for HeadRoom these days?

A total waste? I wouldn't go that far. It may be that HeadRoom thinks that it would ultimately lose money if they make a stand alone crossfeed processor, since people who would otherwise buy a HeadRoom headphone amplifier might choose to buy just the processor and use another brand of headphone amp.

Let's not forget that HeadRoom used to make a stand alone crossfeed processor for use with electrostatic headphones. It was called the HeadRoom Static, and I think there may even have been deluxe version called the More Static. I guess those must not have sold too well, because they were discontinued, but for people who like electrostatic headphones and want cross feed processing, this appears to be the only option (unless you want to the DIY passive crossfeed filter using the specs on the Meier-Audio web site).

pabbi1 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 10:11 PM

The real story is that Tyll has said in the past that, paraphrasing, all electrostatic headphones suck. Getting over that hurdle is the first step.

Then, there are some new designs being vetted by the DIY community, so limiting the development exposure is the second hurdle.

As for profitability, the final hurdle, small production runs, with possible warranty issues are just a non-starter from a business perspective, witnessed by HR implementations of the Wheatfield designs - while very dependable units, and still sought after, simply do not have the volume to justify the overhead and marketing.

So, if you want an electrostat amp, build it yourself. There are options.

dolstein · #8 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabbi1

So, if you want an electrostat amp, build it yourself. There are options.

But if you want an electrostat amp with crossfeed, there aren't any options. That's the problem. There are plenty of possible solutions -- stand alone cross feeder processor, a stereo DAC with digital domain implementation of crossfeed (e.g. Dolby headphone). But apparently none that are commercially viable.

Tyll Hertsens · #9 (**permalink**) 03-26-2009, 10:58 PM

Probably not on the estat or amp.

We'll do tube amps before an estat, and even that's hard to get around to.

WRT, a stand alone crossfeed, that might happen someday in the sense that someday we might do a DAC with DSP HRTF in it.

pabbi1 · #10 (**permalink**) 03-27-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dolstein

But if you want an electrostat amp with crossfeed, there aren't any options. That's the problem. There are plenty of possible solutions -- stand alone cross feeder processor, a stereo DAC with digital domain implementation of crossfeed (e.g. Dolby headphone). But apparently none that are commercially viable.

I'll look into it - there are several xfeed circuits (Jan Meier posted one, and I know Pete Millett has at least one that I have heard myself), so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Post a query on DIY, and you might be surprised at the responses.

Canman · #11 (**permalink**) 03-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens

Probably not on the estat or amp.

We'll do tube amps before an estat, and even that's hard to get around to.

WRT, a stand alone crossfeed, that might happen someday in the sense that someday we might do a DAC with DSP HRTF in it.

Crossfeed in the digital domain is an interesting thought...It would presumably have less of an effect on frequency balance than the analog filter. Sounds like programming the DSP would take a bit of work.

moogoob · #12 (**permalink**) 03-30-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman

Crossfeed in the digital domain is an interesting thought...It would presumably have less of an effect on frequency balance than the analog filter. Sounds like programming the DSP would take a bit of work.

I can imagine. Though, if anyone can make a digital DSP that doesn't sound like crap, it's Headroom.

Tyll Hertsens · #13 (**permalink**) 03-30-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canman

Sounds like programming the DSP would take a bit of work.

That's why it's already in the works; we've got a grad student up at Montana State with a huge DSP lab at his disposal working on digital HRTF as his thesis. He'll have it figured out in a coupla years.

(He's measuring our headphones now for Raman money and experience. He's gonna do just fine; this is going to be a very interesting project for all concerned.)

dolstein · #14 (**permalink**) 04-01-2009, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens

That's why it's already in the works; we've got a grad student up at Montana State with a huge DSP lab at his disposal working on digital HRTF as his thesis. He'll have it figured out in a coupla years.

(He's measuring our headphones now for Raman money and experience. He's gonna do just fine; this is going to be a very interesting project for all concerned.)

Tyll --

Have you ever considered doing a DAC/Headphone Amp that can digitally decode Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks and apply Dolby Headphone processing? Somelike like the AKG Hearo or Beyerdynamic HeadZone, only better (and cheaper).

deacongreg · #15 (**permalink**) 04-01-2009, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottsmrnyc

I am just throwing this idea out? With all the products made and sold by Headroom, what are the possiblities that Headroom would come out with a series of electrostatic headphone amps and electrostatic headphones? What do you think about this Tyll and others at Headroom
Scottsmrnyc

Yes, I`m also a big Mcintosh fan for years. Actually sold them back in the day at "Harvey Sound" here in Midtown Manhattan. Planning to take the two hour tour in Binghamton, NY of how they build their amplifiers. From the face plates to the heatsinks!!

From what I hear, its very good.