recent stereophile ad

[Veniogenesis]

Originally Posted by jpelg

Nice ad about vaporware - again.

The nearfield setup was shown at the 2007 Head-Fi International meet six months ago, and the ad says those components are still six months out. A year, Tyll? C'mon.

Can't you guys come up with interesting adverts about stuff you are actually shipping?

Wow...

[jpelg]

Originally Posted by n_maher

Well then start a discussion or quit your whining.

I did. Well, technically I responded to a thread. Albeit in probably an overly sarcastic way. Good point though. It's just that the last thread on this subject got buried, and obviously had no impact on HR's practices.

Truth is, although I did think about this when I first saw the Stereophile spread, I wouldn't have posted anything if Johnny hadn't started this thread.

Or at least be equitable with your bitching, Headroom is hardly the only company around here to try and build some buzz with pre-release adds/posts/whatever.

True. I guess I thought I'd try floating my opinion here, one more time. And I figured that Tyll can handle it better than most.

One can hardly blame Headroom for using their advertising dollars however they want to

I don't really know what that means. Of course I can't blame anyone for putting their money wherever they wish. But I can blame them for using FUD marketing tactics.

Although, since Johnny brought up the "band for their advertising buck" aspect, I'd venture a guess that it was cheaper to make up one nice ad that included several new products, rather than two or three different ones for single products, and deciding which to run each month. This way, it can be used all year. I hadn't thought about that.

I'm with you though, I'd like to see some print on the new micro line. The information in that sponsored thread is pretty thin for a product that's now shipping.

Great example! They've got plenty of products shipping that they could be touting right now.

Still, what I'm hearing, at least from those few who have posted here, is that you (or at least many) do want to see these kinds of ads, and talk ad-nausem about things "coming down the pike or around the corner". Imo, while that has a definite place in this hobby, it shouldn't be the only thing we look for or discuss here. It should be the minority of the content, both posted & advertised, imo. Headroom is better than that.

[jp11801]

Originally Posted by jpelg

Still, what I'm hearing, at least from those few who have posted here, is that you (or at least many) do want to see these kinds of ads, and talk ad-nausem about things "coming down the pike or around the corner". Imo, while that has a definite place in this hobby, it shouldn't be the only thing we look for or discuss here. It should be the minority of the content, both posted & advertised, imo. Headroom is better than that.

I dunno Headroom has innovated more than most so their core at Headfi probably looks for that. I don't always like the innovation but in this case I want to see how far I can take my desktop.

[n_maher]

Originally Posted by jpelg

Still, what I'm hearing, at least from those few who have posted here, is that you (or at least many) do want to see these kinds of ads, and talk ad-nausem about things "coming down the pike or around the corner". Imo, while that has a definite place in this hobby, it shouldn't be the only thing we look for or discuss here. It should be the minority of the content, both posted & advertised, imo. Headroom is better than that.

What I'd like to see is a better balance from them, updating the threads on topics that deserve updating so that their target audience (us) can get that information more easily. What I'd wager is the reason behind the Stereophile add focusing on the speaker realm rather than existing headphone products is they probably feel that they'll get a better value for their dollar advertising speaker gear in Stereophile as compared to something like the Micro line.

[tyrion]

I would like to hear more about as well and when I saw the Stereophile ad was encouraged that the amp and stands would be a reality. I don't believe they would spend what it must cost for a full page ad if they didn't think these products were going to be a reality. I currently use a inexpensive t-amp with a pair of Denon satelitte speakers out of my computer in my office. I have the speakers on some old backup tapes we no longer use. I've been looking forward to clean this up and add a better amp for a while.

[grawk]

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt - aka Lying about your competitor's future. Not at all about paying big bucks for a print ad about a future product of your own.

It's outright rude to accuse one of the most standup guys I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with of spreading FUD. He PROMOTES other companies instead of his own at most opportunities. If they want to build some anticipation for an upcoming product line through paid advertisements in magazines, why does this get your panties in a bunch? Good grief.

[jpelg]

Originally Posted by grawk

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt - aka Lying about your competitor's future. Not at all about paying big bucks for a print ad about a future product of your own.

It's outright rude to accuse one of the most standup guys I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with of spreading FUD. He PROMOTES other companies instead of his own at most opportunities. If they want to build some anticipation for an upcoming product line through paid advertisements in magazines, why does this get your panties in a bunch? Good grief.

While I have no further thoughts on this subject, I will clarify a few things mis-stated in the above post.

First of all, your paraphrasing of the definition of FUD is far too limited, and inaccurate in my usage. FUD is most often accomplished today by companies simply releasing product information prior to its actual availability to the public, thereby creating fear, uncertainty, & doubt about competing products currently on the market. Potential customers for the product already rolling of one manufacturer's line will hold off purchasing now because a new product is "just" on the horizon.

Secondly, and more importantly, I never, ever, ever said Headroom subscribed to lying or speaking maliciously about any competitor. Please do not put words in my mouth that are not on this page.

[n_maher]

Originally Posted by jpelg

While I have no further thoughts on this subject, I will clarify a few things mis-stated in the above post.

I think Grawk pretty much nailed it Jimmy, sorry. While I won't go so far to say that you didn't know what you were talking about it's clear that you don't understand the full meaning of the terms that you ascribed to Headroom. Both have a significantly negative connotation (as was recently pointed out to me when I misused Vaporware) and imply dishonesty on the part of the company in question.

If you're frustrated about Headroom advertising products that aren't ready for production you're welcome to express that displeasure. I'm sure they value the feedback, but to do so in the manner that you did is pretty unfair. You might as well paint Ray's Predator thread, Justin's Pico thread and a whole host of other pre-release information threads around here with the same brush. Funny, I don't see you doing that but you sure seem more than willing to rail on one of the more admirable members of this community. :stoic:

[Tyll Hertsens]

We knew that series of ads would piss of some people ... oh well. Any press is good press; got people talking, eh?

Seriously, one of the reasons we're doing the series of ads is because people mostly don't understand what our Desktop amps can do. They're really not a headphone amp as much as they are a Desktop Pre-Amp ----someday we'll rename it something like that. We've found that it's VERY difficult to deliver the impression quickly (which is what you have to do in an ad) of the type of things the Desktop Amp is capable of. We determined the best way to get the ides across is to essentially complete a Desktop Audio System, take a picture of it, and then publish it. Audiophiles will see a complete system that bares a resemblance to what they've got in the listening room and they'll "get it." So a lot of our motive is to get the idea across that a fully featured headphone amp is really a great "center" for your desktop audio.

As far as "FUD" goes .... hmmm ... maybe a little. I certainly admit that I feel pressure that one of these days someone is going to get off their butt and build audiophile desktop systems, and I suppose I do press hard to be first and if that means sticking my foot in the door to be first, I'll do it. OTOH, it's a relatively complicated set-up that has a number of features and concepts that are somewhat new to the market place. I'd hate to come out with a product and then sit around waiting for six months while people drum up an eagerness to buy, so we start priming the pump with an introductory series of ads. WTF is wrong with that exactly? Pissed off because you can't have one yet? Good! That's what we're looking for.

I know there'll be some folks like jpelg who respond negatively, but, from what we've seen so far, most folks appreciate the opportunity to watch news in the making. We're not waisting their time with a bunch of "Yippee yahooee" baloney either; the series of ads will discuss and educate (as far as one can in ads, which isn't very) about the things that go into great near-field listening. So, I'm comfortable with the balance we're striking.

Sorry, Jimmy, if this kind of marketing sticks in your craw, but that's the way we are. I promise, I'm not doing it to hurt anyone, just getting the word out about upcomming listening opportunities. Also, we did run ads on the new stuff in the last few issues.

[Jahn]

the actual product of stuff to go with the desktop line that aren't headphones may not be on the market yet, but the desktop line is here and ads like this do help get folks' heads around the idea of a Desktop system.

and it results in actually moving current Desktop product too, i think. last week i walked by a truck delivering a Headroom box here on Park Ave - Desktop-sized by my figuring. someone's office is a bit happier now i'd say:basshead:

dont get me wrong, i get JPelg's issue with the "if no speakers to sell today, why is it in the ad today" thing, but i also get the "we need to get the word out on Desktops, even if the whole deal isn't out there yet" thing.

in the end, one more system where there is currently only a stapler and a tape dispenser is a good thing, no matter how it happens that guy is probably using a pair of powered monitors from Staples to drive it for now tho, hehe!