Listening Loud Distroys Fidelity

[scompton]

The day I bought my Radio Shack SPL meter, I measured the noise level on the DC metro on my way home.

Level in the station without a train in the station - 75dB
Level in the station with a train entering the station - 105dB
Level in the station with a train stopped in the station - 95dB
Levels while riding a train - 95 - 110dB

I spend 30 - 40 minutes, each way commuting to work on Metro 5 days a week. It makes me very happy to have IEMs that block a lot of the sound.

The articles linked by rsaavedra make me feel pretty good about my listening levels. The one article states that you can listen to an iPod with the stock buds at 70% volume for 4.5 hours per day. I can't imagine listening that loud for 5 minutes, let alone hours. Personally, I don't want to come anywhere near the limits. I try to keep my normal listening level below 80dB. Once you do it for a while, you're ears get used to it and you can hear the nuances in all but the quietest passages.

[holland]

I'd put some foam on that disc to dampen reflections.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Originally Posted by rsaavedra

Here's a set of very useful references for everyone interested in this thread.

http://www.headwize.com/articles/hearing_art.htm

http://www.abelard.org/hear/hear.htm

And everybody should be interested in this thread!

Tyll pointed out in his original post. Any system, even high-end ones, in general will play music with more distortion at 90+dB than at 80-85dB. The louder you play the more Low-Fi you get.

Actually, my point is NOT that the stereo system starts to distort above a 85-90dB---because that's not neccessarily true, in fact headphone systems can probably get into the 100s before distortions start to increase---but that YOUR EARS start to do things that effectively reduce the fidelity that you've paid so much to get.

Originally Posted by The Sloth

So remember, hearing loss can come without the slightest warning - just because you don't feel any warning pain or discomfort doesn't make you 'safe'.

Good points, there are some warning signs though:

A sense of "pressure" in your ears.
A sense of fatigue with listening.

These subtle warning signs need to be heeded. If you've had some long sessions and find you're a bit tired with listening, DON'T just go ahead and listen more out of habit. Give your ears a break for a couple of days or a week.

Once you have a ringing in your ears, it may be temporary. Again, give it a good long rest---you can listen, just quietly for a week or so... and try not to stress out!

Once you have Tinnitus, be VERY careful. Your hearing at that point is like holding on to a handfull of sand: You can loose some every time you're not carefull, and it won't come back. It'll just get a little worse every time you drop your guard.

STRESS has a huge effect on tinitus and hearing loss. If you know you're very stressed, DON'T start trying to pound it out with your system. It just increases the likelyhood of problems.

And, of course, if you have any concerns, talk to an audiologist.

[rsaavedra]

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens

Actually, my point is NOT that the stereo system starts to distort above a 85-90dB---because that's not neccessarily true, in fact headphone systems can probably get into the 100s before distortions start to increase---but that YOUR EARS start to do things that effectively reduce the fidelity that you've paid so much to get.

Ah good clarification, thanks Tyll. I did interpret incorrectly that in general louder caused more distortion from the equipment, even at relatively low dBs; my bad. It´s our ears then, perceiving less fidelity at higher volumes.

[Tyll Hertsens]

Originally Posted by rsaavedra

Ah good clarification, ...my bad. It´s our ears then, perceiving less fidelity at higher volumes.

Yes. It's an amazing realization, really. And the more I think about it and listen to it the more I realize it's true, and that it's an important truth for us audiophiles. For example: it's amazing at how bad stuff sounds at shows. Everybody blames the rooms, but maybe it's because everyoone is playing their gear too loud in a subconscious effort to force impressions. In the end, you walk away thinking the gear sounds bad.

[Torula Yeast]

Coupla late thoughts...

Because of the ear's natural tendency to protect itself from loud noises, whenever I enounter a noisy boo-boo when listening to headphones -- say, I bump the gain setting or the volume knob and get a loud earful -- I always give my ears a brief respite to recover before getting back to the listening, to allow them to readjust to normal hearing. That way, I don't risk restarting the listening on a louder, less safe level.

I also recall hearing (heh) years ago that the reflex meant to protect the eardrums from loud sounds diminishes with alcohol use. That is to say, after three or so drinks you may feel less inhibited about raising the volume on your cans to match your raucous mood, but your ears are less up to the task of trying to filter out the harmful noise. A nasty combo. And, as I say, I can't believe and am ever so grateful I have the ability to distinguish sonic detail as I do given my 20s. :stoic:

[n_maher]

This thread inspired me to pick up an SPL meter last night on my way home. The results were very encouraging, turns out I tend to like to listen at an average SPL of around 70db with peaks well under 80db. I took the measurements with the probe right at the surface of the driver (somewhat conservative) and noticed that moving even a half inch away reduced the level significantly (~10db). I'll try the CD top mod and see if the results are any different tonight. But so far it looks like I'm one of those folks that listens really quietly.

I'll be bringing the meter with me to the next Boston meet so that folks can check their own configurations and get an idea of where they stand. Thanks for the thread and the reminder Tyll. All good music ceases to be good music if you can't hear it any more.

[ziplock]

I don't mess around with my ears anymore; my listening levels are VERY low.

About 8 years ago I built this "head banger" headphone amp for my mini disc player and V600s (they sounded great at the time). This puppy put out 375mW into 8-ohms at a gain setting of 11!

I lost 50% of my hearing in both ears for 3 weeks solid.

Today this ear basher sits in a box in my storage shed. I will never be that foolish again. Really, I should dismantle that thing and use the parts for something else.

The OP has posted good info there. Protect and cherish your ears people, you only get one pair!

~Zip

[jar]

Originally Posted by jaredy

But on a slightly different note on the topic...if you were listening to live music, which most certainly is fairly loud (and depending on the genre damaging for sure), do you guys wear ear protection? It might not be weeks worth of earphone hammering, but I certainly can feel the SPL at live shows, musicals, etc. I sometimes stuff napkins in my ears (though that kills some of the listening experience, but sometimes it hurts).

I do wear ear protection at shows. I currently use a pair of Etymotic ER20s that I got for free at the first national meet. They reduce volume significantly, while remaining relatively flat in frequency response. I plan to eventually get custom musicians earplugs made, but the ER20s are pretty good. They're light years ahead of napkins or drugstore foam plugs and only cost about $10-15.

[Dustin B]

Another user glad for your efforts Tyll. I learned it from you and various websites a number of years ago and I've educated a number of friends on the dangers and have seen them lower the volume levels.

I never really knew why I liked to keep the volume levels down a bit, but your essay here I think accurately explains it.

Thanks.