Balanced Desktop vs regular Desktop

[Ruahrc]

Looking at the amp packages on the HR website I am interested by the following 2 options. Considering that I am set on getting K701s these packages are attractive to me:

One is the "Serious Audiophile Package" which has the fully maxed out Desktop Amp, DPS, and AKG K701s. These seem like a good value considering the bundle price and maxed out amp+DAC.

But then right next to it is the balanced desktop package. It's actually $130 less than the above package, but has the supposedly higher quality balanced setup? But the difference is that it does not have the highest end "max" modules, nor does it have the DPS. In theory, if you take off about $120 for the astrodyne power supply, and add $400 for the DPS, it still comes out to within a couple hundred dollars as the single ended setup- albeit with lower electronics.

So my question is, which is likely to be better? The unbalanced amp with the higher quality "max" electronics? Or the superior balanced design but with slightly lower electronics+DAC? Does not having the DPS limit the system performance of the balanced setup further? Is running the balanced amp in single-ended mode identical to listening to an unbalanced desktop amp with the home-level electronics? How good are the home electronics modules?

And why is there no Desktop balanced amp with max electronics+ max DAC? Is it because power or space requirements (because it requires 2 Max modules and 2 DACs) make it too difficult to fit in that size of amp?

I guess it comes down to whether or not one should spend the money on the max modules or the balanced amp design. Which do you think is the better choice? Keep in mind that my current setup is very humble compared to either of thse, consisting of ER4Ps being driven direct off a laptop or iPod . Possible sources that are going to match this new amp setup is going to either be an airport express/optical or AppleTV optical. I kind of feel like amps at this level really need to be driven digital, as matching these amps to a crummy DAC a-la a laptop or iPod LOD is not matching components properly... would you say that I'm right in this regard?

Ruahrc

[Superpredator]

I personally wouldn't buy an amp before knowing which headphones it was going to be driving. I don't think the Desktop or Desktop Balanced is really the appropriate amp for a pair of ER4Ps. Usually one discovers headphones one likes and then seeks to balance them to eek out some improvement. Are you strongly considering balanced headphones?

[Ruahrc]

Forgot to mention that I have pretty much decided to get some AKG k701s. Another reason that these HR packages are appealing to me as they include the K701s- especially the balanced package as it includes a balanced K701.

I had (thanks to a local Head-fier) the chance to audition them briefly and found it to be matching what I was looking for in a headphone: clear, detailed sound. I was worried that there wouldn't be enough bass but after hearing them I discovered that there was plenty of bass. Almost too much- but they were being driven by a tube amp and I figure that going SS will not be quite as warm which would be just right for me.

The ER4Ps would remain single ended, and would be used occasionaly on the amp (as they would defeinitely benefit), perhaps even I would add the 4P-4S converter and get an ever better sound from them when amped?

Ruahrc

PS looks like I did mention the k701s in the OP, again I'm basically decided that they are the phones I would like.

[Superpredator]

Originally Posted by Ruahrc

PS looks like I did mention the k701s in the OP, again I'm basically decided that they are the phones I would like.

Ah, so you did.

Well, you bring up some interesting questions that I can't really answer. I borrowed a Balanced Desktop + balanced K701 from HeadRoom and personally preferred a single-ended K701 with my Cayin. It does sound like the K701/Desktop is exactly what you're after in terms of sonic characteristics. I think I'd rather have the Maxed single-ended Desktop + K701.

[arrowmark]

Tyll had both at a Head-Fi Show in FL about a year ago. I compared them with the HD-650's with Cardas cables and thought the Balanced were superior in all areas- black backround, stereo separation and soundstage. I purchased the Balanced Desktop.

[Ruahrc]

Would you say that these types of improvements are pretty typical for a balanced vs unbalanced setup? Having never heard a balanced setup (or a high-end single-ended setup for that matter) I don't really know what the benefit is. I can understand the technical advantage of balancing the cables, but what this translates to sound-wise is not as clear to me.

Ruahrc

[arrowmark]

Your best solution is to go to a Head-Fi meet where they have both amps. That's what did it for me.

[jjhatfield]

This is something I've done a lot of research about, having considered many times purchasing some sort of HR Desktop unit yet never pulling the trigger: time and time again, most people say that the balanced with home comes out sounding better then the single ended with max.

What you sacrifice with the balanced home over the single ended max is purely functional: the single ended has pre-out outputs, which would enable you at a later date to run RCAs into an HR desktop speaker amp or directly into some active speakers, so you can create your very own "Audiophile Desktop". It has been this feature that has consistently stumped me on which unit I would purchase. Ask me on any given week and I'd tell you I'd go with the balanced, the next week SE. Now if HR could replace that analog in on the balanced with a preamp out, then we'd be in business...

And yes, to answer your question, IIRC the reason the balanced can't use max modules is because of heat and space restraints.

[Ruahrc]

Where do I find out where and when Head-fi meets are? I live in SE Michigan.

Assuming that I don't realyl have any intent to double-duty a Desktop amp to drive speakers, would you say then that going the balanced route would make more sense from a sound quality point of view? Or that most people would say that the balanced amp sounds better, but they may not get it due to its more limited function as an amp?

Also, is the balanced amp's DAC fully balanced too? i.e. if I feed a digital signal into the amp will it be fully balanced from the DACs through the amplification circuit and out to the headphone drivers? What about the DPS, is it balanced? How about hooking up SE analog sources to the RCA inputs of the amp, how does the amp treat this signal- does it duplicate the signal and invert one of them or does it do something else?

And what exactly is the difference between dual-mono and balanced? Is it possible to have a dual-mono balanced amp?

ATM I feel like I am leaning towards the balanced amp because I feel like I would never be able to hear the difference between the home and max circuitry, but might hear the benefits of a balanced cable.

Also, just to be sure, I can still use my single-ended phones on the balanced amp too, right? I have an Ety ER4P that is single ended and I can use a 1/8"-1/4" adapter and simply plug it into one of the 2 output ports and get sound basically identical to a Desktop amp w/home circuitry?

Ruahrc

[arrowmark]

I would call Headroom 's tech. Dept. for all these questions.

[mrarroyo]

Ruahrc, the answer to your last question is yes. You can plug a SE headphone into one of the balanced output plugs.

[The Monkey]

If it were any other phones other the K701, I would suggest the balanced desktop without hesitation. However, the only times that I personally have liked the K701 have been when driven by HR Max electronics. Otherwise, I feel that the balanced amp presents a broader soundstage and more agile bass response.