09-07-2007, 09:06 PM
|
 |
Member of the Trade
Red Wine Audio
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Meriden, CT
Posts: 465
|
|
iPod Classic... DAC and output stage info from Vinnie of RWA
All,
I've spent quite a lot of time with my 6G iPod Classic. I 'scoped the line out and headphone outputs and followed their paths from the Apple 338S0394, which is the new CODEC (dac) chip used, to the line-out and headphone output jacks. Both the line-out stage and the headphone output stage are the cleanest I've seen from Apple. There are no opamps after the Apple 338S0394. There are also no caps, as this chip is fed a split power supply (+/- voltages), so I'm sure there is a push-pull output stage built into the chip. No measured bass roll-off issues under load. There are only a few tiny surface mount resistors/inductors in the signal path.
The Apple 338S0394 and the Wolfson WM8975 used in the 5G/5.5G are obviously different designs so we can expect them to have a different sound. All I have here to compare the line-out of the 6G to is my 5.5G iMod line-out feeding the ALO Vcap Dock. I've only spent around 1 to 2 hours of listening to these two units, but so far I already prefer the sound of the iMod 5.5G with Vcap dock... there is a little more weight in the bottom and the top-end is a little warmer/sweeter sounding. The 6G is a little thinner sounding in comparison. The line-out voltage of the 6G is a little lower... approx 0.75Vrms and I tried my best to compensate for this by measing the output voltage at the speakers (using a 1kHz sine wave to calibrate). This took some time to do so I couldn't do any fast A/B switching in this comparison, so keep this in mind. Long story short, I'm keeping my 5.5G iMod, but of course I am also a little biased!  
Based on these findings of the 6G iMod Classic, I'm thinking it is not worth modding them because it not nearly as much "stuff" in the signal path between the dac and the dock connector as the 4G, 5G, and 5.5G units, so you can't expect the get nearly the same kind of benefit.
I am a little disappointed in what I have found (and I'm sure there are others who are as well) because I was really hoping for the 160GB iPod Classic to have pretty much the same dac and could be modded the same way as the 5G/5.5G, and the extra benefits over the 5.5G would be a larger hard drive, metal front, and new software updates that do look very cool. Hopefully 160GB drives can be purchased at a decent price soon enough they can be put in the 5G/5.5G iMods!
I hope you guys have found these findings to be informative and helpful.
Best regards,
Vinnie
|
09-07-2007, 09:08 PM
|
 |
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 922
|
|
Wow.
And thanks for the R&D.
|
09-07-2007, 09:10 PM
|
 |
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 679
|
|
Aww that's too bad. I was also hoping to see what kind of craziness you guys would pull out of the 6G ipod. Oh well, the existing units are very nice units already. =)
|
09-07-2007, 09:10 PM
|
 |
Headphoneus Supremus
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,305
|
|
Thanks for the Vinnie. ...and now i can almost feel the rush to get their iMods off the FS forums... 
|
09-07-2007, 09:22 PM
|
 |
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The big black-red-yellow
Posts: 819
|
|
Sounds like the stock 6G is already a pretty good player 
__________________
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety." Ben Franklin, 1759
|
09-07-2007, 09:25 PM
|
 |
Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 67
|
|
So what was with all the assumptions in the other thread that the 6g DAC wasn't as good just because it wasn't the Wolfson?
In any case this is good news for me because I would use the player stock. So summing it up, out of the headphone out, the 6G sounds better?
__________________
Gear
Denon AH-D1001 / Sennheiser HD 25-1-II
Old Gear
Equation Audio RP-21 [Foam Mod] / Creative EP-630 / JVC Marshmellows / Koss Sportapro / Koss Plug / Panasonic HJE-50
iRiver H320/Toshiba Gigabeat S60/Zune80/iRiver LPlayer 4GB
|
09-07-2007, 09:26 PM
|
 |
1000+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,239
|
|
Ok, what I read here is that I can buy a 6G iPod and, using my existing Jena Cryo Dock, fall only a "little" short of IMOD performance for a lot less money. That's really good news to me, not bad news.
__________________
Phones: Sennheiser HD800 with Blue Dragon v3 cable / Denon AH-D2000 recabled / Sennheiser HD600 + Blue Dragon
Home Rig: FLAC via Foobar/WASAPI/optical --> MHDT Paradisea+ DAC w/ WE396A --> Woo Audio 6 SE w/ Sophia Princess
Portable: iPod Touch 32GB --> ALO Cryo Dock --> RSA Predator --> Westone UM2 / Koss KSC75
My Feedback: Head-Fi ; eBay ..... My Head-Fi Blog: Orcin's Blog
Current Head-Fi threat level is orange. Intelligence indicates a high risk of money being spent, but a specific target has not yet been identified.
|
09-07-2007, 09:26 PM
|
 |
Headphoneus Supremus
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 12,519
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymesgalore
Sounds like the stock 6G is already a pretty good player |
thats also how I interpret this. 
__________________
Happy Listening!
The Kramer Tune of the Day
Stone Trek, My favorite Prog-Rock FM radio show
My Gear Profile
My Feedback Profile
The Grado Labs virtual tour
Headfest 2007 Videos
-Day1-
Six Degrees of Headfest
Texas Vibe
Takes My Breath Away
Freeborn Man
-Day2- Narrated by yours truly
Day2 Part1
Day2 Part2
In my CD Player:
Dreamtheater, Queen, Rush, Marillion, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple, Dio, Queensryche, Kings-X, Jethro', Yes, Primus, Eric Johnson, Liquid Tension Experiment, Junior Brown, Moody Blues, The Beatles, Styx, Asia
|
09-07-2007, 09:30 PM
|
 |
100+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Riga,Latvia
Posts: 234
|
|
Interestingly to hear more comparisons on SQ, before jumping on 6G...
__________________
Headphones: Creative EP-630, Senns: PX100, HD600
Sources: home rig: Denon DCD-3000, Sony cxp - 370; mobile rig, past: iPod 80gb 5.5G, MSI P640; mobile rig present: iPod Shuffle 2G, Sansa E280 (8 GB version)
Amps: home rig: NAD C 315 BEE; portable: CMOY headamp w/OPA2134 ALPS PCB from Zigis Audio Lab, Latvia
|
09-07-2007, 09:33 PM
|
 |
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 530
|
|
thanks for the info vinnie!
From listening to the classic out the headphone jack and the line-out dock, is there a significant difference as seen in the generations prior to 6?
__________________
Headphones: Shure E500PTH, Altec Lansing iM716 (sold), Sennheiser HD497, HD650, DT880 (2005)
Sources: iPod 80gb 5.5G, iPAQ hx4700, computers :)
Amps: RSA Tomahawk (sold), DV 336i
Cables: TURBO Diabolous V11 iPod Dock
Cases: BSE
Head-fi feedback
|
09-07-2007, 09:39 PM
|
 |
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 843
|
|
Why did you have to post that. If there was drag and drop compatibility I would drop my Zune for the extra space and loseless codecs in a heartbeat. With good SQ on the iPod, iTunes is the only thing seriously keeping me away. That and I just don't want another boring iPod, but that could be fixed pretty easily.
__________________
/got nothing
|
09-07-2007, 09:41 PM
|
 |
100+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arlington, VA (USA)
Posts: 400
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon118
Why did you have to post that. If there was drag and drop compatibility I would drop my Zune for the extra space and loseless codecs in a heartbeat. With good SQ on the iPod, iTunes is the only thing seriously keeping me away. That and I just don't want another boring iPod, but that could be fixed pretty easily.
|
I think the ipod classic does not support lossless formats.
__________________
Home (computer): FLAC --> FB2K --> AV-710 --> Zu Pivot IC --> Gilmore Lite --> Grado HF-1 / AKG K240 Sextett
Travel/Work: Eee PC 901 XP FB2K --> iBasso D2 Boa DAC/Amp --> Etymotic ER6i / Yuin Pk1 / A-T ATH-EW9
Portable: Ipod Classic 80GB --> [copper dock --> iBasso D2 Boa --> ] Etymotic ER6i / Koss KSC-75 / iGrado / Yuin Pk1
Feedback
|
09-07-2007, 09:42 PM
|
 |
Headphoneus Supremus:
Videographus Supremus:
Makes audio cables using super-advanced materials, like "some clear tape" and "some not so clear tape."
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 8,364
|
|
Isn't it still a bit to early to commet on how any of these new units sound? Gotta let them burn in. 
Thanks for checking into this Vinnie.
__________________
lan's Head-Fi International Meet 2008 "CanJam" High Definition Videos! are here
lan's Head-Fi Meet 2007.Nov.10 High Definition Videos! are here
lan's Head-Fi International Meet 2006 High Definition Videos! are here
My advice to you:
- Use your own ears as everybody's hearing and preferences are different.
- Try to audition as much equipment as possible to find your sound.
- Buy used to save money.
|
09-07-2007, 09:43 PM
|
|
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 530
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by htbyron
I think the ipod classic does not support lossless formats.
|
according to the specs, which another member pointed me to... it supports apple lossless:
http://www.apple.com/ipodclassic/specs.html
__________________
Headphones: Shure E500PTH, Altec Lansing iM716 (sold), Sennheiser HD497, HD650, DT880 (2005)
Sources: iPod 80gb 5.5G, iPAQ hx4700, computers :)
Amps: RSA Tomahawk (sold), DV 336i
Cables: TURBO Diabolous V11 iPod Dock
Cases: BSE
Head-fi feedback
|
09-07-2007, 09:44 PM
|
|
500+ Head-Fi'er
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 922
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by htbyron
I think the ipod classic does not support lossless formats.
|
According to Apple's website, it does.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Apple.com
Audio formats supported: AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, WAV, and AIFF
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Head-Fi.org
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:58 PM. |
|
|
