Wadia iTransport iPod Dock Gets Bit-Perfect Digital from iPods!

[ZephyrSapphire]

Originally Posted by jp11801

ok maybe I'm missing something but you need a computer to get the music on to your ipod??
Please understand I am not trashing the wadia interface but I see it as a limiting solution for an extremely small audience. Most people will not even understand what this product does in the general ipod buying community.

Actually the mini does not require a screen after you set it up. I can control my mac mini using a palm device or most cell phones with either blue tooth or wifi. I'm glad most are excited about the wadia I just don't see it as a particularly good buy when I can go mini and get so much more

I'd disagree with the latter. PCs do generate noise and with this, it's avoidable. A major advantage of the iTransport is when your friends bring over their iPods. You should know the rest.

[hempcamp]

Wait, hold on, stop, slow down, hold it...

As has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, if there is *no internal modification* of the iPod, this must mean something inherent in the iPod is doing the actual work of outputting a digital signal. Which merely makes the Wadia a way-way-overpriced dock connector.

If this isn't just vaporware or snake oil, how many minutes do you think it will take for the DIY community to figure out how to do this a lot cheaper?

--Chris

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by jp11801

I read the press release a few times and did not see mention of a dac section did I miss it or was there another source for that information? Personally $349 for $349 I can not see them including a better dac then is already in the ipod considering cost of the case, components and software and chips to read the raw usb digital feed and to convert that into sound or video. IO really thought this was an alalog pass through as well can anyone confirm that there is a dac in there??

From the Wadi Press release

The iTransport measures 2” x 8” x 8” (H/W/D), making it an easy addition to most racks and entertainment centers. Wadia incorporates a bit-perfect S/PDIF digital audio output and high-resolution component digital video output, as well as analog audio and video outputs for
easy connection with most audio/video systems

It has its specific gizmo to extract a digital signal from the iPod and from there it can either convert the signal to analog with its own DAC or send it out as a digital bitstream for another DAC.

[ZephyrSapphire]

Originally Posted by jp11801

I read the press release a few times and did not see mention of a dac section did I miss it or was there another source for that information? Personally $349 for $349 I can not see them including a better dac then is already in the ipod considering cost of the case, components and software and chips to read the raw usb digital feed and to convert that into sound or video. IO really thought this was an alalog pass through as well can anyone confirm that there is a dac in there??

There's an analog audio output, clearly meaning that there's a DAC in there. Another major aspect would be the iTransport's capability of a video analog output. Which would a major plus as the presence of the digital output from the iPod. And in addition, not everyone hooks their PC to ther home theater system. But they can hook this up to their home theater system with a lot less hassle than connecting a PC to the home system.

[ZephyrSapphire]

Originally Posted by hempcamp

Wait, hold on, stop, slow down, hold it...

As has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, if there is *no internal modification* of the iPod, this must mean something inherent in the iPod is doing the actual work of outputting a digital signal. Which merely makes the Wadia a way-way-overpriced dock connector.

If this isn't just vaporware or snake oil, how many minutes do you think it will take for the DIY community to figure out how to do this a lot cheaper?

--Chris

Now this, I agree with. There should be a way to connect the iPod dock to produce a digital output and connect to an external DAC. Otherwise Wadia couldn't have done so!

[jp11801]

Originally Posted by hciman77

From the Wadi Press release



It has its specific gizmo to extract a digital signal from the iPod and from there it can either convert the signal to analog with its own DAC or send it out as a digital bitstream for another DAC.

Originally Posted by ZephyrSapphire

There's an analog audio output, clearly meaning that there's a DAC in there. Another major aspect would be the iTransport's capability of a video analog output. Which would a major plus as the presence of the digital output from the iPod. And in addition, not everyone hooks their PC to ther home theater system. But they can hook this up to their home theater system with a lot less hassle than connecting a PC to the home system.

so actually neither of you know for sure but you are assuming it has a dac??

I am not saying the wadia definitely this does not have a dac I am just asking where does it say it has a dac, as of right now there is no mention of a dac section just an analog out and you do not need a dac to get an analog out from an ipod dock?

There are separate pins for the digital usb stream and the analog signal from the dock wadia could have implemented either way

[ZephyrSapphire]

Originally Posted by jp11801

so actually neither of you know for sure but you are assuming it has a dac??

I am not saying the wadia definitely this does not have a dac I am just asking where does it say it has a dac, as of right now there is no mention of a dac section just an analog out and you do not need a dac to get an analog out from an ipod dock?

There are separate pins for the digital usb stream and the analog signal from the dock wadia could have implemented either way

To my knowledge, there is no possible way of converting digital outputs to analog outputs without the presence of a DAC. If they implemented the analog signal then there's no point of them declaring the iTransport producing a digital output.

[Oliver :)]

Originally Posted by jp11801

so actually neither of you know for sure but you are assuming it has a dac??

I am not saying the wadia definitely this does not have a dac I am just asking where does it say it has a dac, as of right now there is no mention of a dac section just an analog out and you do not need a dac to get an analog out from an ipod dock?

There are separate pins for the digital usb stream and the analog signal from the dock wadia could have implemented either way

Exactly. We would need clarification from Wadia. Since they do not mention the use of an internal DAC, and looking at the price, I truly doubt they have one in there, or even if they did, that it would be one worth mentioning.

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by hempcamp

Wait, hold on, stop, slow down, hold it...

As has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, if there is *no internal modification* of the iPod, this must mean something inherent in the iPod is doing the actual work of outputting a digital signal. Which merely makes the Wadia a way-way-overpriced dock connector.

If this isn't just vaporware or snake oil, how many minutes do you think it will take for the DIY community to figure out how to do this a lot cheaper?

--Chris

The ipod is outputting a digital signal but it looks something like a USB data stream but is unusable as it is without some jiggery pokery, the Wadia de-interlaces the data making it into an audio data bitstream. If the ipod output was a vanilla USB stream then any USB DAC would work (I think) and you could skip a step. So yes, you are paying $350 for a work-around that circumvents Apples software, now according to the DMCA this could actually be illegal unless the manufacturer explicitly gives you permission to do so

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by Oliver :)

Exactly. We would need clarification from Wadia. Since they do not mention the use of an internal DAC, and looking at the price, I truly doubt they have one in there, or even if they did, that it would be one worth mentioning.

If it outputs an analog signal and it takes in a digital signal then it must have a DAC. A basic DAC need not be expensive, my $80 Edirol has a built-in 24/96 DAC, so does my $60 DVD player. At the consumer end these things cost a few dollars. A $20 sound card has a DAC in it.

[Oliver :)]

Originally Posted by hciman77

If it outputs an analog signal and it takes in a digital signal then it must have a DAC. A basic DAC need not be expensive, my $80 Edirol has a built-in 24/96 DAC, so does my $60 DVD player. At the consumer end these things cost a few dollars. A $20 sound card has a DAC in it.

No, it does not. All it has to do is to pass through the analog signal from the iPod's dock connector, as all the other docking systems do. Fact is: We don't know. Wadia knows.

[jp11801]

Originally Posted by hciman77

If it outputs an analog signal and it takes in a digital signal then it must have a DAC. A basic DAC need not be expensive, my $80 Edirol has a built-in 24/96 DAC, so does my $60 DVD player. At the consumer end these things cost a few dollars. A $20 sound card has a DAC in it.

this is simply not true IPODs from the dock output digital data to load data from a a computer and could always be used as a portable hard drive so they have the that ability
the dock can also output an analog signal

why couldn't wadia just tap the analog signal and offer it as a pass through and then take the other pin outs the ones used for digital and tap those for its raw data to spidf conversion.
Personally a dac in a $350 device that already has alot going on seems like a step sideways from the dac that is in the ipod already

either way I'm sure after next week we'll know for sure either way

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by hciman77

If it outputs an analog signal and it takes in a digital signal then it must have a DAC.

Originally Posted by Oliver :)

No, it does not. All it has to do is to pass through the analog signal from the iPod's dock connector, as all the other docking systems do. Fact is: We don't know. Wadia knows.

Are you are suggesting that it takes in an analog signal and just outputs the analog signal ?, in any case that still doesnt work as it also outputs a digital signal via COAX. So for that to work it would also have to have an ADC instead of a DAC to give you the digital output

If it just takes the iPod analog output, which they say they dont , from their press release....

bypassing the player’s internal D/A conversion and output stage

then they are basically lying. Someone shoukld buy one and take it apart

[guzziguy]

Originally Posted by ZephyrSapphire

To my knowledge, there is no possible way of converting digital outputs to analog outputs without the presence of a DAC. If they implemented the analog signal then there's no point of them declaring the iTransport producing a digital output.

Doesn't the Wadia dock also have access to the audio line out, just like normal LODs? If so, it could just be acting as a normal LOD for audio out.

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by jp11801

this is simply not true IPODs from the dock output digital data to load data from a a computer and could always be used as a portable hard drive so they have the that ability
the dock can also output an analog signal

why couldn't wadia just tap the analog signal and offer it as a pass through and then take the other pin outs the ones used for digital and tap those for its raw data to spidf conversion.
Personally a dac in a $350 device that already has alot going on seems like a step sideways from the dac that is in the ipod already

either way I'm sure after next week we'll know for sure either way

USB is digital !, it isnt digital audio bitstream but it is digital, what else could it be?

Yes you transfer data to/from an ipod via the USB but you cannot play back an iPod through a normal USB DAC, has anybody ever been able to do this ?

If you could you wouldnt need these fancy circumvention devices.

That is why there are these gizmos to get round this.

To use an ipod on your computer you need to load drivers to let your File system recognise the iPod file system. Most USB hard drives dont need this step at all.