turntable recommendations?

[JefferyK]

Originally posted by aroon
ooo, thanks for the info. this basically resparks my fire for a technics. ive been looking at the sl-1300s and that pretty much looks like the turntable for me. its a lot like the 1200 cept...cheaper heh.

One difference between the two TTs is that the 1300 does not have the VTA adjustment ring. Some folks think not being able to adjust the VTA is no big deal. I like the option, personally.

You can find an SL-1200MKII for US$400 new if you look around. But that may be over your budget.

And just to reiterate: Specs are important when choosing audio equipment, including a TT. Becoming familiar with what specs mean, and which specs are most important to you personally, is essential. There are a lot of parrots flying around Internet bulletin boards that try to pass off opinion (and hype) as fact, but I'm sure you've figured that out already.

Jeffery

[joelongwood]

Specs are important when choosing audio equipment, including a TT.

Agreed.......however, your ears should be the final judge. If all that mattered was published specifications, then just about every audio component out there would sound the same. And $12.99 headphones might well compare favorably with the Stax Omega and Orpheus.
I own about a dozen different turntables, ranging from inexpensive Technics TTs to a Thorens TD 125 MKII. Rumble, and wow and flutter are acceptable (to my ears) on all of them. However, the biggest difference I hear, is the amount of record surface noise that is transmitted through the speakers. I don't believe that this is a published specification for any turntable.
I can tell you from personal experience that the TTs made of mostly plastic transmit the most surface noise and are also very prone to acoustic feedback.
Unless your records are scrupulously clean, this surface noise can ruin your initial vinyl experience.

[davei]

FYI you can pick up that yellow AT cartridge at any Rat Shack. I think I'll get one to play around with.

1200s are solid and reliable DJ machines, as such they hold their value real welll... I've never seen a used one in good condition less than $300.

[soundboy]

The wow and flutter specs for Technics TTs (even the budget SL-BD20 and SL-BD22) are very, very good, much better than all of the $500 and under Music Hall and Project TTs.

That's quite a statement there. As an owner of a Technics SL-BD20 (that's BD as in belt-drive), this owner is very good as an entry-level turntable. Upgrade the (detachable) power cord, the cartridge to a Grado, and put it on Vibrapods, you will have a turntable that will compete with entry-level Pro-ject or Music Hall TT.

I posted the this over at hometheaterforum.com a little over a year ago on the Technics SL-BD20.

[joelongwood]

Originally posted by soundboy
That's quite a statement there. As an owner of a Technics SL-BD20 (that's BD as in belt-drive), this owner is very good as an entry-level turntable. Upgrade the (detachable) power cord, the cartridge to a Grado,....

Just out of curiosity, did you experience any low level hum with the Grado. I installed a Grado Black P-mount in one of my SL-BD20s, and there is a hum. The music covers it up, but in silent passages it is definitely there. the stock Technics cartridge did not exhibit this hum at all.
I agree with you, that, as an entry level TT, this Technics is decent, but again, the record surface noise is greatly exaggerated in comparison to my other TTs. Maybe the vibrapods would help?

[stargirlga]

After joining this site, I guess I have to pull out my stored turntable and vinyl. I have an OLD Technics turntable that was always good (direct drive is a good thing). Since the cartridge is old, I daresay I need to upgrade though. I still have about "6 feet" of vinyl from the 70's and 80's when I was still buying it. And I guess I should dig it out of storage.
The Technics was dependable and played great. (I dropped it on concrete once moving, and it still played well, how many CDPs can say that???)
So I have no qualms with the Technics. Get reccomendations for the cartridge. That was always the bigger thing than the actual turntable...
Good luck. I'll follow this for reccomendations.

[JefferyK]

Originally posted by joelongwood
Just out of curiosity, did you experience any low level hum with the Grado. I installed a Grado Black P-mount in one of my SL-BD20s, and there is a hum. The music covers it up, but in silent passages it is definitely there. the stock Technics cartridge did not exhibit this hum at all.
I agree with you, that, as an entry level TT, this Technics is decent, but again, the record surface noise is greatly exaggerated in comparison to my other TTs. Maybe the vibrapods would help?

Really, really weird: The Grado Black shouldn't hum at all with the BD-20 because the BD-20 has a DC motor. It is my understanding that Grados only hum on tables with AC motors.

I used a Grado Black on a BD-22 for a while. No hum, but I could never get the thing to track properly. Great sound when it didn't pop out of the groove! Had way better luck with AT cartridges.

I'm not sure if chassis construction affects surface noise. I do know that VTF and the cartridge can. For example, I currently have an AT440 on an SL-1200MKII and changing the VTF to EXACTLY match the recommended 1.25 grams made my records much quieter. I will say that when I had a BD-22, more revealing cartridges (cartridges with wider frequency ranges) picked up more surface noise than others. Being able to adjust VTF would have alleviated this, I think.

I also agree that specs aren't everything. I think you're right that some things, such as surface noise, aren't really quantifiable. But specs aren't nothing, either, particularly when it comes to wow/flutter and rumble, and particularly when people claim that Table X has much more rumble than Table Y without comparing the actual specs and/or taking measurements. Generally, I'm a "trust your ears" kind of guy, but I do think you have consider factual data as well as your personal opinions/preferences.

Jeffery

[JefferyK]

Originally posted by soundboy
That's quite a statement there. As an owner of a Technics SL-BD20 (that's BD as in belt-drive), this owner is very good as an entry-level turntable. Upgrade the (detachable) power cord, the cartridge to a Grado, and put it on Vibrapods, you will have a turntable that will compete with entry-level Pro-ject or Music Hall TT.

I posted the this over at hometheaterforum.com a little over a year ago on the Technics SL-BD20.

Another plus for the BD-22 (not sure about the BD-20) is that it has RCA jacks, which means you can upgrade the interconnects, and a replaceable ground wire (an important feature if, like me, you have a cat that loves the chew through cords). The SL-1200MKII is hardwired.

Jeffery

[joelongwood]

Originally posted by JefferyK
Another plus for the BD-22 (not sure about the BD-20) is that it has RCA jacks, which means you can upgrade the interconnects, and a replaceable ground wire (an important feature if, like me, you have a cat that loves the chew through cords). The SL-1200MKII is hardwired.

Jeffery

The BD-20, I believe, is identical to the BD-22, except it does not have a built in strobe and pitch adjustment. It does have RCA jacks and a replaceable ground wire.
Thanks for the info on the hum, Jeffrey. Unfortunately, there are no adjustments possible on the BD-20 for VTF or anything else. The amount of surface noise was pretty bad with both the stock Technics cartridge and the Grado Black. I had no problems with tracking using the Black. As a matter of fact, I have a very warped album that none of my other turntables will track properly............but the Technics/Grado Black does just fine. This stuff is strange......but I'm luvin' it!

[JefferyK]

Originally posted by joelongwood
The BD-20, I believe, is identical to the BD-22, except it does not have a built in strobe and pitch adjustment. It does have RCA jacks and a replaceable ground wire.
Thanks for the info on the hum, Jeffrey. Unfortunately, there are no adjustments possible on the BD-20 for VTF or anything else. The amount of surface noise was pretty bad with both the stock Technics cartridge and the Grado Black. I had no problems with tracking using the Black. As a matter of fact, I have a very warped album that none of my other turntables will track properly............but the Technics/Grado Black does just fine. This stuff is strange......but I'm luvin' it!

I replaced my BD-22 because I could never get the surface noise down to an acceptable level. However, my best friend has the same TT, and his records have ZERO surface noise. I've never been able to figure out exactly WHY. He uses an older AT cartridge no longer being manufactured. He also only plays records he bought new back in the, erm, old days. A mystery I have yet to solve.... !

Jeffery