Quality of Bel Canto S300iu integrated amplifier's built-in DAC?

[Zuerst]

Anyone familiar with the S300iu's built-in USB DAC? How does it compare against the likes of Benchmark DAC1, Stello DA100 or DA220, Lavry 10...etc?

Thanks.

[Thelonious Monk]

saw you post this on audiogon; free bump. i'm interested in this thing too. i'm a believer in transducers > amp(s) > source > cables/power/tweaks, but i still think that a good dac is important. this unit looks like it would be perfect for a 2.1 computer based setup. i'm thinking something like:

usb output -> bel canto s300iu -> atc scm7 + hsu vtf3 ho

perfect, minimalist, size-efficient. crap, you could put an lcd monitor's base on the bel canto for ultimate symmetry and ergonomics. replace the rubber booties with vibrapod isolators/cones, add a few bass traps here and there, get some nice cables like blue jeans or zu, buy yourself some hospital-grade outlets or maybe even a ps audio soloist and you're in business. (yeah, i make virtual systems in my head when i get bored. so sue me!)

...unless the dac sucks. which is why i'm bumping this, if the dac sucks that would ruin my hopes and dreams.

also, i sent a head-fier who owns the thing a pm about this a few minutes ago, before seeing this topic; the thing is, the only other dacs he owns are also usb-based. hopefully he can give an idea on how it performs. i'd be more than happy if it could compete with entry-level cd players; i'm a believer that going too far with digital sources will do nothing but make most of your music sound crappy. i'm trying to find the "middle ground" with this system, makes average recordings sound good and good recordings sound great. if the bel canto s300iu can compete with a microdac, i think that i wouldn't have an urge to upgrade the aforementioned system for a long, long time....

...unless the dac sucks.

[d.f]

hi. long time reader of the forums here,
i'd really like to get any thoughts / impressions too. Bel Canto seems to get a few nods around here. only 'independent' review i can find is from AVREV. it's very good according to them.

does this site carry any weight..?

[melomaniac]

hi, having lived with an s300iu for a year or so now, I would say (fwiw) that it compares favorably to the apogee mini, for instance, and to the outlaw rr2150 USB dac also (which I kept nonetheless). I tried half a dozen other USB solutions (separates), and some of them seemed as clean as the bel canto, but a little more tweaky or unreliable (but I keep looking around). I have found this amp to be simply satisfying in terms of power, sound, and ease of use (as well as size, weight and design which, though we don't often acknowledge it, is always a concern to some). I am not sure it's here forever - I am still looking for tweaks and improvements (currently auditioning the paul speltz zero autoformers for my bigger maggies since I feel that even the bel canto's prodigious 300w/4ohm may not get the big panels to sing as they are meant to). I would not hesitate to say that this amp, and its USB solution, are as good or better than anything in or near-above its price. unhappily, I have insane friends with gear that cost them a multiple of mine, and I do lust after some things their setups do that mine sometimes doesn't. that said, I am listening right now (taking the morning off due to an evil head-cold), an even through my clogged ears it sound very, very good. fast, clean, powerful, with great bass and lively highs, shapely mids. bottom line - if you have a reliable computer near where your amp will sit, you owe it to yourself to get a good USB dac and use the hard-drive as your transport, it works unbelievably well.

[the_rangdo]

I've tried FLAC files with Foobar and ASIO drivers into the S300iu USB vs my SB3 into my BM DAC1 and then into the analogue side of the S300iu.

It's been a while since I did it, but my recollection is the sound is pretty damn good using the USB input, but not as good as my BM. If I didn't have the BM I think I'd be happy, but in comparison I found it to be slightly bass-light and an overall flatter sound (soundstage not as wide). Perhaps also slightly less detail, but bearing in mind the BM is considered a highly analytical DAC some may prefer a slightly less upfront presentation.

HTH.

[Patu]

I use S300iu every day through the USB DAC. I've now had it for ~3 months and I'm extremely happy with it. I got it "used" for about half the retail price and I honestly think that it's the best hifi acquirement I've ever made.

It's a perfect one box solution. Four inputs + USB input and two outputs guarantee flexibility. I have two RCA inputs + USB input in use, subwoofer connected to the preamp output (variable volume level) and headphone amp connected to the tape output (fixed volume level). So pretty much all the potential of this amp is in use.

About its performance, it's awesome. Nowadays I use my speaker rig much more than my headphone setup. I previously had Rega Mira3 + Stello DA100 running my speaker rig. Now I just pull USB cord from computer to S300iu. It performs on a whole different level than Mira3 + DA100 combo did. PRaT and speed is stunning, though my speakers have much to do with this. There's much more power and control in the sound. I'd also say that it's more musical sounding. Music is very easy to listen, unfatiguing and easy to follow. With Mira3 + DA100 the bass sometimes lacked power and I had this feeling that the amp can't drive my speakers. Not with S300iu. Soundstaging is awesome. I had my friend here listening to my rig and his first comment was that "I simply can't place the speakers in the soundstage." It's so spacious and fills up the room.

I also compared the DAC section of S300iu to DA100. I connected DA100 to S300iu's RCA input and compared it directly with the USB input. I found out that DA100 had somewhat thinner and slightly more distant sound than the S300iu. Also the musicality and easy flow of the music were gone with DA100. DA100 was just much more boring. It's (naturally) obvious that there's strong synergy with the S300iu's amp and DAC sections. These notions I made with speakers.

I also tried how S300iu + HP100 would compare to DA100 + HP100. Headphones I used were HD650. I was very surprised of S300iu's performance with HP100. It came extremely close to DA100 + HP100. It was much harder to hear the differences in this comparison but they were somewhat similar than previously described. Anyway I didn't feel necessary to keep DA100 anymore, that's how small the differences were. Actually I'd say it's pretty much a tie between S300iu and DA100 in headphone use.

I very much recommend this little box. They even lowered the prices for this year so go for it.

[melomaniac]

fwiw the S300iu was just reviewed in the june issue of stereophile. eventually I guess that review will also appear online. while it's positive, it's not a gushing endorsement - it basically says that it succeeds in its league but serves as a gateway drug to the true high end. we shall see how people respond to that characterization... ;-)

[Patu]

Originally Posted by melomaniac

fwiw the S300iu was just reviewed in the june issue of stereophile. eventually I guess that review will also appear online. while it's positive, it's not a gushing endorsement - it basically says that it succeeds in its league but serves as a gateway drug to the true high end. we shall see how people respond to that characterization... ;-)

I'm still extremely happy with mine.

[melomaniac]

Originally Posted by Patu

I have two RCA inputs + USB input in use, subwoofer connected to the preamp output (variable volume level) and headphone amp connected to the tape output (fixed volume level)

I wonder if this is better (the sub on the pre out) than going amp-sub-speakers? my sub allows this, and for reasons of cable placement (and length, I'll have to cop to ordering an uneven-length pair to do this, oh the heresy!) I have been doing that. the sub should do this well enough - but does anyone believe using the preamp out would be better here? just thinking out loud...

[Patu]

Originally Posted by melomaniac

I wonder if this is better (the sub on the pre out) than going amp-sub-speakers? my sub allows this, and for reasons of cable placement (and length, I'll have to cop to ordering an uneven-length pair to do this, oh the heresy!) I have been doing that. the sub should do this well enough - but does anyone believe using the preamp out would be better here? just thinking out loud...

I don't know which one is better. My subwoofer (Anthony Gallo TR-1) is an active subwoofer so using preamp out is natural choice for me. Speaker terminals on TR-1 look kind of shabby to me so I prefer to use RCA-connection. It has worked fine for me.

Of course you have to adjust the crossover frequency correctly from the subwoofer. I have done that just by my ears, so that it sounds good to me.