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Thats just not true Art, there are many solid state amps that don't have this sort of character... most of Ray Samuels amps, the dynahi, etc.It really depends on the amps in question. It is quite possible to create a very resolving and engaging rig that has just solid state or just tube amplification. There is no magic combination.
Art: I find your equating the sound of solid state and tube amplification amusing.
They are basically different animals. They each emphasize harmonics differently and this has a big effect on the sound signature.
Solid state yields a sharp edge to the tone image at the expense of leanness in the body of the tone image and tubes do the opposite.
Sure tube amps can be set up to give a hard sound that emulates the SS sharp tone edges, but this turns out to be slightly harsher than the SS sound.
It is simply not the same. This why people eventually reject tube amplification that gives sharp tone edges that solid state amps give - a tendency to slight harshness in bright lean tones, mostly noticed in the treble range.
Some SS amps do better with tone richness than others, but none can quite match the tone body of a tube amp with the right tubes. Even the most expensive solid state preamp and amp combinations fall slightly short. I like tube richness but eventually the coloration in timbre, from overemphasis of the tone body relative to the tone edge, turns me off.
A tube preamp and solid state amp is the best way to combine the best of soldid state sound with the best of tube sound. But it must be an excellent tube preamp and solid state amp, or it can produce new problems.
I didn't really get the best sound until I understood this and incorporated it it my system, and more importantly, I didn't fully understand this until I tried it out and was able then to compare it to my past all tube and all solid state preamp and amp components.
My home and headphone amplification gives me this tube-solid state combo. My portable BLAudio headphone amp has slightly more tone body than my previous Lehmannn BC linear headphone amp, and is slightly smoother and sweeter, but the BLAudio lacks the deep bass and some of the sharp definition and detail (and dynamic transients) of the Lehmann. But even the BLAudio headphone amp has more leanness of tone body than tube headphone amps. I like the BLAudio and Lehmann equally, but for differnet reasons, but the Bada PH12 headphone amp is superior to both by allowing for added tone body to the great SS characteristics of either.
Anyone who says tube and solid state amps are the same are talking in terms of being able to like either, and not in terms of their sound equality. They do not have equal sound by any means, though you can enjoy good examples of either.
I most enjoy a good example of the best of both in one system.
__________________ Home headphone system: AMPS: Bada PH12 tube/Mosfet amp, Doge 6210 EL84 tube amp. Amp Review. Headphone: Senny HD600/Cardas, AKG K701. SOURCE: Rega Saturn CDP. IC: CT Silver Reference II, which is identical to the Acoustic zen Silver Reference II IC. POWER: Tice Micro power conditioner, two Cattylink Analog Research Silver Raincoat power cables.
Past recently owned headphone amps: RSA Raptor EM II, ASL MG Head III OTL, G&W T2.6F tube/Mosfet amp, Woo Audio 2, Woo Audio 3, Xian Sheng 708B amp, Lehmann BC linear, Meixing (Ming Da) MC66AE, Headroom Cosmic, Headroom Micro Desktop, Hafler Preamp, RSA Hornet, Stax (with Stax electostatics). Past recently owned headphones: Sony SA5000, Stax (two different), Sennheiser HD650, AKG340, Grado (HP-2 and SR60), Beyerdynamic DT860, Sony (many), Koss (many).
In my case, I have a solid state amp, however its sound is quite warm unlike some SS gear you refer to. I don't think the E5 is showing up any weaknesses there. Having said that, I haven't heard the E5 through a tube amp.
Anyway, in my system, the E5 with the cardas cable does not exhibit this lean / bright quality. Perhaps it is just a matter of the raincoat cable breaking in as others are indicating. I do wonder whether there is silver in the raincoat cable though, and whether this might account for any of the differences I am hearing.
I do agree that sometimes it is the CD that is the problem.
I find your equating the sound of solid state and tube amplification amusing.
huh? I'm confused here, because as far as I can tell I am the one saying that neither one stereotypically sounds the same and you are the one that is throwing around blanket statements. What is amusing exactly?
Originally Posted by drarthurwells
A tube preamp and solid state amp is the best way to combine the best of soldid state sound with the best of tube sound. But it must be an excellent tube preamp and solid state amp, or it can produce new problems.
In your opinion maybe, but since when is adding more amplification stages a good thing? There are tube amps out there which do not have any of the common problems that most tube amps have and there are solid state amps with great tonality. If you can get everything you need with a simple configuration that is far preferable in my opinion... cheaper too.
Originally Posted by drarthurwells
I didn't really get the best sound until I understood this and incorporated it it my system, and more importantly, I didn't fully understand this until I tried it out and was able then to compare it to my past all tube and all solid state preamp and amp components.
I am glad that you have found amps or combinations of amps that you are happy with, but this is not the only formula for audio bliss.
Originally Posted by drarthurwells
Anyone who says tube and solid state amps are the same are talking in terms of being able to like either, and not in terms of their sound equality. They do not have equal sound by any means, though you can enjoy good examples of either.
I've heard tube amps that sound like solid state and visa versa. There are so many different ways to design both that it is completley ridiculous to just put all amps into two groupings and start assigning sonic merits and faults based on that alone.
__________________ "For a list of all the ways technology has failed to improve the quality of life, please press three."
Moon Audio modded Original CD-2008MK-II / de Almeida Signature Shadow XLR / McAlister Audio Massive Attack / Headphile modded BlackGold recabled AKG K340 OR APureSound V3 recabled Grado RS-1
Has anyone found the E5 sound to be a bit lean and/or bright - when used with the silver raincoat power cord provided. So far, I have found this to be the case, although the soundstage and detail are both very, very good.
Perhaps I haven't given the unit and the cord enough time to burn in? I tried a Cardas Golden Reference power cord and the sound definitely has more body and is less bright...at least to my ears.
Does anyone know anything about the composition of the silver raincoat power cord? Are we talking about copper wire with silver plating? Is there a sheild or any type of filtering in this cord?
Thoughts?
I'm not sure about the composition of the Raincoat but it is shielded and uses heavy gauge wire. The E5 itself is anything but lean and bright and I agree with Arthur Wells that the E5 is very revealing of everything else in your system be it bad or good. I really don't think the power cord is at fault here. Another power cord might change the sound in a very subtle way at most. I've tried a few with my E5 and my amplifier and to be honest I never thought power cords made of quality materials made much of a difference. You might want to try different IC's or speaker cables. I've tried many IC's with the E5 and each one had a different sound signature. The difference between them could easily be heard on excellent recordings.
Just for reference I've tried Signal Cable digital ref and MIT Z-Cord 2 on the E5 and I really can't here a difference between the sound the E5 produces with any of these power cords versus the Raincoat. I use the MIT on the E5 now just because the IEC connector on the Raincoat does not go in tightly enough on the E5's prongs. It's too loose and I don't like that.
I hope you find the source of your problem but I don't think it's the CDP.
My Esound came in today. 5 days of running in at Cattylink, 2 days DHL express shipment HongKong - Belgium.
If you buy locally, it mostly takes longer to get your stuff! Great job Cattylink.
Good that you guys warned me about the stone-thing insite the package. I don't know what I would have thought about it when I was not warned! Anyhow, the stone didn't survive the trip.
After climatisation and unpacking the 3 cartons I switched the player on and had a negative impression. Humble comming from the transformer. This transformer is unussually huge for a CD player, therefore I guess there is more chance to hear it.
Newcomers may somewhat relativate this Humble as my listeningroom is a dedicated soundproof HT studio. Average noiselevel is only 20 dba, that means you hear everything. I am used on the Hum problems already. Almost every unit I bring in has a singing transformer.
Due to the extra ordinary sizing of the transformer it took me 2 hours to solve the problem. I isolated the whole Transformer support block. Now the transformer does not touch the chassis anymore. The metal support plate is now hanging in rubber rings and the transformer itself is pulled to the support plate by a silent block instead of the M5 bold.
On demand I can post some pictures of my modification, if there is interest to see it. This forum seems to have storage available for fotos, so that won't be a problem.
After that, I went through a few hours listening session but found a lot of strength in the sound. I am pretty sure that the equipment still needs some time to run in. There is not enough articulation in the bass section, mid's doesn't come out yet. Treble sounds okay already, I assume this also will improve during the next days and offer me better sound than I am used to.
So don't take this too serious untill I have used it for some time.
Overall, and apart from the transformer hum, the player made a good impression to me. All functions are working properly, the inside is an example of how things need to be build. In some way it reminds me on the Sony Esprit series.
This high quality is absolutely not evident for the price you pay for it.
Funny this NO dISC, rEAd, etc.. things. Well, they give it some charisma.
Well if it's funny in German, it must be hilarious in Cantonese!
German Raisin? mother tongue in Belgium is Flemish and French!
In a matter of fact, due to the size of our country, most Flemish people in Belgium are supposed to be multilangual, thus speak and write Netherlands, French, German and English.
I've taken the plunge and ordered an E5 on the strength of the feedback from this forum. To date the response from Snowy at Cattylink has been excellent and my set is currently on the 120 hour quality check. I've read about the need to burn in the cd player and wonder if someone could clarify how to do this - does the equipment just need to be powered up, or actually to be playing a cd?
I've read about the need to burn in the cd player and wonder if someone could clarify how to do this - does the equipment just need to be powered up, or actually to be playing a cd?
Put a cd on repeat.
__________________ Team AKG!
Home Rig: Monster Power HTS3500MKII => Eastsound CD-E5 => Grover UR6 Reterminated w/ Eichmann Silver Bullets => Single Power Extreme Platinum => AKG K1000s / Sennheiser HD-595s
I agree, I won't find issues with the E5. It is an amazing player.
As I have stated, in my system, the cardas cord gives me the E5's resolution, without the tendency towards lean/bright sound. So, as it stands now, the raincoat power cord is the issue.
However, I plan on upgrading my speaker cable and running some new power lines to my living room shortly. I will run some more listening tests then and give the raincoat cable some more time.
E5 ordered
Linear Mode
