I hereby take back all the bad things I've said about PS1.....

[Hi-Finthen]

"different but not deficient" , how very soon the contemporary lexicon grows, here now into audio and interestingly enough, very appropriately so as to further understanding, in the face of prejudice...

Congrats again Bert!

[tfarney]

2. No amount of coloration of the midrange can recreate soundstage, separation, detail, articulation, and timbre correctness and etc.

That's true. Soundstage is a function of recording technique and a speaker system's ability to disperse upper mids and trebles. It is only related to electronic components to the degree that they are able to accurately represent the panning, dynamics and detail created in the recording. When we hear a vastly improved soundstage from an electronic component...you know what? I'm not sure what we're hearing. A higher level of accuracy, better channel separation? Or an illusion, perhaps, because sometimes, on some recordings, crossfeed can appear to open up the soundstage when the opposite should be true. And plenty of people hear a bigger soundstage on vinyl, which technically makes no sense at all (the superior channel separation, dynamics and low background noise of digital should all help create a much better illusion of soundstage).

Separation, detail, articulation...unless you're talking about channel separation, those are three different adjectives for the same thing. Timbre correctness? I dunno what that is. We're talking about an electronic component not a violin. It's sending an analog signal to your amp that is a relatively accurate reflection of the analog audio that was recorded, converted to digital information then converted back to analog by your PS1. Period. Unless we are talking about coloration, the only real issue is the component's degree of accuracy; everything else is more adjectives.

Of course none of that means squat. All that matters is how it sounds. I think it's exceedingly cool that an old PS1 sounds great, and I'm not surprised. I think my ultra-cheap Toshiba dvd sounds good, and I suspect that most of the audiophile-grade goodies that drive up the price of pricey CDPs and DACs make tiny, incremental improvements in the noise floor and resolution, but that the "quality" we hear is in the tone of the output stage. Or some stage. But it's color. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Which brings me to the last part...

Why is it obvious that $3k CDP must have a separate path for digital/analog, sophisticated power supply, super accurate crystal clock and other esoteric stuff?

It's not. It's only obvious that various combinations of that esoteric stuff are what the manufacturers, sellers and users of these products tell us sets them apart from the average consumer stuff. It is also obvious, to me anyway, that when a PS1 or a cheap Toshiba DVD player, or an Oppo with measurably horrible jitter numbers, sounds really good to a lot of the same people who have owned and loved high-end CDPs and DACs with various combinations of that esoteric stuff, that the bulk of the sound either is not in that stuff...or we're suffering from mass hypnosis.

And it is probably a bit of both.

I know many will disagree. That's ok. It gives us something to talk about.

Tim

[White Mike]

Originally Posted by selfdivider

It's kind of funny reading your attempts to justify yourself as some level-headed savant. If you read your posts here, and in other threads, even if the price-equivalency claims have not been made, you keep saying things to the detriment of some PS1 user experience.

Wrong. To the detriment of some PS1 users arbitrary use of superlatives or comparisons based on memory rather than a simple A/B...

Originally Posted by selfdivider

And usually, your comments are pretty snarky.... I don't even remember what you said in the other thread, but it was similarly... I don't know... snarky. Some sideswiping, disingenuous BS.

Snarky? Well, close enough I guess.... as least in that it was my intention to get a reaction. I'm certainly no gentle flower that will wilt under the glare of a bit of scepticism. Why should anyone's opinion on these forums not be subjected to rigorous questioning?
Actually is there a smiley for snarky? :snarky: <- guess not!

Originally Posted by selfdivider

But all you do, White Mike, is just throw up empty claims or insults and then tell the other people that you're misunderstood.

Only by you Sidewinder....

Originally Posted by selfdivider

Just look over your own posts, amigo. If you don't get what I'm talking about, you should brush up on your rhetoric.

Finally, I don't know why you keep trying to refer this back to what I have or have not heard, as if to give weight to your own (unhelpful to the topic) rebuttal. It's absolutely irrelevant to my posts. All I am asking for is that you guys be a little more intelligent with the descriptions you use.

Originally Posted by chesebert

Would you be happier if I omit the price and just say PS1 sounds equivalent (different but not deficient) to Ayre C7Xe, C5Xe...

Yes, absolutely! No need to re-enforce your opinions with the big dollars is there?

[chesebert]

Originally Posted by White Mike

Yes, absolutely! No need to re-enforce your opinions with the big dollars is there?

you understand what you are looking for is pure formalism right? Had you googled the pricings of those players I mentioned, you will see their prices; what's more most people here know these either by their own experience or the experience of another; so formalistically withholding pricing information is pointless IMO.

[selfdivider]

Originally Posted by White Mike

Well, close enough I guess.... as least in that it was my intention to get a reaction. I'm certainly no gentle flower that will wilt under the glare of a bit of scepticism. Why should anyone's opinion on these forums not be subjected to rigorous questioning?
Actually is there a smiley for snarky? :snarky: <- guess not!

Finally, I don't know why you keep trying to refer this back to what I have or have not heard, as if to give weight to your own (unhelpful to the topic) rebuttal. It's absolutely irrelevant to my posts. All I am asking for is that you guys be a little more intelligent with the descriptions you use.

You? Rigorous questioning? LOL... that's the funniest thing you said, White Mike. I bring up the fact that you didn't listen to the PS1 because - wait for it if your poor logic can't speed up to reality - you didn't listen to it. Urrr, consider for a second that you are painting yourself as some voice of reason doing the "rigorous questioning" based on nothing but puff logic in your head? How's that for intelligence? Face it. All you're doing is popping some veins and flinging your rhetorical feces over a player you haven't heard. Wow. For what reason? I'm cool with what I listen to. A lot of other people are. But you care as much as what other people like... what's your issue? "As if to give weight to my own rebuttal"? Listen, dude. Get a clue. When we say we like something, we do it for the sake of sharing. If people don't like what I like, I'm cool with it, as I mentioned in this thread. If people agree, that's cool, too. But you, on the other hand, start throwing ad hominems. I don't know where you get that Judge Judy mentality when it comes to audio, but take a tranquilizer or something.

Hahaha... "rigorous questioning"...

[selfdivider]

Originally Posted by White Mike

Wrong. To the detriment of some PS1 users arbitrary use of superlatives or comparisons based on memory rather than a simple A/B...

Another proof that you're talking with imaginary friends in your head. In the other thread about Cambridge 840C, where you were slinging mud, I wrote about doing extensive A-B between PS1 and Cambridge Audio 840C. I'm sure at least Hi-Finthen would attest to that... This thread was about Chesebert doing A-B between PS1 and his Ayre CX-7e. All you gotta do is put down the crack pipe, and read this thread & the other thread carefully. What part of A-B don't you understand?

And what kind of A-B tests did you do to back up your claims or base your "rigorous questions?" Oh yeah. You didn't even listen to some of these players at all. Man, what an inconvenience, right? But you read about them in reviews and heard the voices in your head.

[chesebert]

Originally Posted by selfdivider

Another proof that you're talking with imaginary friends in your head. In the other thread about Cambridge 840C, where you were slinging mud, I wrote about doing extensive A-B between PS1 and Cambridge Audio 840C. I'm sure at least Hi-Finthen would attest to that... This thread was about Chesebert doing A-B between PS1 and his Ayre CX-7e. All you gotta do is put down the crack pipe, and read this thread & the other thread carefully. What part of A-B don't you understand?

And what kind of A-B tests did you do to back up your claims or base your "rigorous questions?" Oh yeah. You didn't even listen to some of these players at all. Man, what an inconvenience, right? But you read about them in reviews and heard the voices in your head.

A/B between PS1 and Transporter...not the Ayre player...which I only remember from memory when I had the player in my system.

[selfdivider]

Oops, my bad Chesebert. But A-B nonetheless, is my point.

[White Mike]

I'm touched you've put so much effort in. However that's a different thread and not the one I was referring to in this thread.

Voices in my head now? Nice work tiger... best you just let it go I think.

[selfdivider]

Sure, deuce. More than happy to let the posts in this thread and the other thread stand as testament to what I'm talking about.