I hereby take back all the bad things I've said about PS1.....

[White Mike]

Unsettling indeed.

Perhaps it just highlights how truly early the law of diminishing returns kicks in for stereo gear (before the transducer) and how much subjective listenening is influenced by aesthetics and suggestion...

[chesebert]

Originally Posted by White Mike

Unsettling indeed.

Perhaps it just highlights how truly early the law of diminishing returns kicks in for stereo gear (before the transducer) and how much subjective listenening is influenced by aesthetics and suggestion...

that's not quite true, case in point: I have notice a proportional gain in sound quality as I moved up the food chain, topping out at C5Xe which sits at around $6k, although there are sources that hit way outside their price bracket (e.g. Saturn. TP), but the price/performance is still relatively proportional.

PS1 just upsets everything.

[tfarney]

My son has a PS2. 2 is twice as good as one, right?

Tim

[White Mike]

Originally Posted by chesebert

that's not quite true, case in point:...

Well perhaps it's more a fact of some placing a higher preferential value on musicality rather than fidelity. It has to be one or the other because it's either that or magic... which I guess is the Subjectivists preferred domain... hmm this all starts to make sense.

Originally Posted by tfarney

My son has a PS2. 2 is twice as good as one, right?

If course it is! The math don't lie...

[tfarney]

Originally Posted by chesebert

that's not quite true, case in point: I have notice a proportional gain in sound quality as I moved up the food chain, topping out at C5Xe which sits at around $6k, although there are sources that hit way outside their price bracket (e.g. Saturn. TP), but the price/performance is still relatively proportional.

PS1 just upsets everything.

Nah. I've said this before, but here goes -- in the face of rapidly-advancing digital technology and world markets, all your old price/performance bets are off dude. Assuming that "you get what you pay for" means anything at all is setting yourself up for the loss of a lot of value.

MHO. YMMV.

Tim

[selfdivider]

Well, the PS2 doesn't sound good at all... I've tried it. I haven't tried PS3, but some people report great sound with it.

As to PS1 SCPH-1001, I'd say it was mostly fortuitous luck that Sony cooked up the PS1. Obviously, they weren't looking to create a top-notch CDP for high-end, but a game machine to be mass marketed. We have to realize that years went by before certain audiophiles noticed the PS1's capabilities, also by freak chance, b/c who would think of feeding the PS1 into his high-end chain without having smoked a spliff or seven? If Sony had known what they were doing with PS1, sound-wise, they would have continued down that line probably.

Again: on subjectivist/objectivist thing. No one's completely subjectivist or objectivist when listening to music. Listening to music isn't as clean-cut or simple as doing long division. Most of us like what Transporter or Resolution Audio can do, at the same time as what the PS1 does, or what a good SET does vs. mega-wattage monoblocks.

And the statement that PS1-preference is induced by aesthetics & suggestion? Again, logically false. Aesthetics-wise, PS1 is pretty crap. And like Chesebert, I measured it against other players, in my case the 840C. The sheen in the high mids & treble that was annoyingly noticeable with the 840C in my system disappeared. That's objective enough. And you'd notice that most of us discover PS1 DESPITE the fact that we didn't want to believe it was good. I'm a natural skeptic, so I refused to believe that the used game machine that cost $25 can better a $1600 player. But after an objective evaluation, that was what happened. (If I'd listened subjectively, with bias, then I'd probably have been closed-minded against such a possibility... White Mike, no offense, but I'd say that given the context, you're the subjectivist. Seems like you haven't really tried PS1 either, but are basing your judgment based on conjecture and bias. Not really an objectivist approach...)

On suggestion: please don't tell me you don't purchase components based on the power of suggestion. People buy EMM Labs or Esoteric or dCS or whatever, largely because of suggestion, too. Otherwise, other players that cost as much at that price-point, offering similar performance, would sell equally as well. That's how any market system works. You tend toward a certain approach because of 'suggestion' or whatever you might call it. I'd say that there is even a greater resistance to purchasing PS1 based on suggestion. Just because it's a crap $25 used game console. Who can swallow that bogus theory whole? You need open-mindedness and OBJECTIVE criterion to get over that level of skepticism.

[nick_charles]

Originally Posted by chesebert

This whole experience with PS1 is very unsettling......how can a mass consumer game machine match the supposedly Class A CDP like Saturn or C5Xe ???

I briefly enjoyed a PS1 until I disposed of it (for human factors reasons), I could not compare it with any esoteric player but it did pretty well in my modest set-up.

Perhaps making a competent CD player is easier than the boutique manufacturers would have us believe, it is after all pretty mature technology by now, read some pits run an algorthim, amp the signal, how hard can it be ?.

Also, what you call something does not always define what it is, just because a handful of Audio journo types enthuse about the latest obscure high priced kit you should be wary of taking too much notice. After all they are also human and as likely to be swayed by shiny boxes, impressive price tages and pure weight as anyone else. I would be more credulous of folks like Stereophile if they did their listening panels blind. Though in fairness to John Atkinson et al they at least do a pretty large range of objective measurements on the kit they review unlike most Hifi mags.

[Hi-Finthen]

I do wonder if there is anything worth noting, in that both users in this thread own Harbeth speakers, owning to a preferance to that British sonic signature, as well as some synergy there ???

[White Mike]

Originally Posted by selfdivider

And the statement that PS1-preference is induced by aesthetics & suggestion? Again, logically false....

... On suggestion: please don't tell me you don't purchase components based on the power of suggestion...

Well you seem to have missed my point. I was not suggesting at all that people would buy into the PS1 myth based on aesthetics (obviously). Merely that I expect a lot more people have been swayed by the outward design of a piece of Hi-Fi gear than are willing to admit... often justifying it by a highly subjective comparison. The same types of comparisons are all that is being used to explain the miraculous performance of the PS1 and therefore I see little weight in those opinions.

As far as suggestion, well I can honestly say it's a constant battle and one that causes me to dip in and out of forums such as these on a regular basis before shaking my head and getting on with life.

So often I see people read about a few others superlative laden opinions on a particular piece of gear and low and behold they are all of a sudden able to see the light, often after listening to it in less than ideal conditions.... or worse, comparing it from memory!

Finally yes, I can honestly say I've never heard (or bought) anything, particularly relating to audio gear that was based on the suggestion of others (specifically relating to any sonic qualities). For the same reason I do not see the value in endlessly posting about describing how something sounds (to me) as though it should realistically be expected to have any practical significance to another person, other than to form part of a flawed mental model. When in essence they should be trusting their ears only.

[selfdivider]

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen

I do wonder if there is anything worth noting, in that both users in this thread own Harbeth speakers, owning to a preferance to that British sonic signature, as well as some synergy there ???

Hmm... that's an interesting question, Hi-Finthen, especially as Chesebert & I have Harbeths. I'm sure there's synergy there, for sure. I also have friends who use PS1s on their systems to complete satisfaction, too. John Devore, obviously, on his Devore speakers. And I have another friend used it with Vandersteens; now he uses Shigaraki DAC + transport on Spendor SP2/3e ... one of the few combos he says he was able to find that bettered the PS1.