Goldmund V.S. Pioneer !!??

[wbjia]

[wbjia]

[hciman77]

Is that the $43,900 Goldmund ? or the budget $6,000 one

Frankly the Pioneer looks better built !

Brilliant !

That must be the most expensive CD clamp in the world !

[wbjia]

the budget $6,000 one

[spritzer]

I knew they used a Pioneer transport and thus the decoder board but simply recasing the Pioneer and adding only a connector PCB in the back is weak to say the least.

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by spritzer

I knew they used a Pioneer transport and thus the decoder board but simply recasing the Pioneer and adding only a connector PCB in the back is weak to say the least.

While I am pretty cynical about the whole "high-end" market I had mostly assumed that most high end marques did at least spend a bit more on the design and components, regardless of whether it makes a difference or not, but this example is just egregious. I am sure it sounds great, but I would really like to see a Blind test between it and the Pioneer.

[grawk]

The goldmund at least has the huge toroid in there. And a better transport. Could be more going on as well, even if they did start with the pioneer boards as a base.

[Faust2D]

That's why I go for old CDPs.

Philips, Grundig FineArts, Pioneer or Sony made in early 1990's and late 80's are so much better build than today's so called hi-end. My Gruding FineArts CD9000 retailed for for 2000 DM in 1990's but it has 2 big transformers, Philips CDM-2 swing-arm mechanism, all German and Japanese made parts and discrete circuits, not counting the TDA1451A S1 chip. Makes a great transport and a nice CDP.

[Faust2D]

Originally Posted by grawk

The goldmund at least has the huge toroid in there. And a better transport. Could be more going on as well, even if they did start with the pioneer boards as a base.

Transport is the same, it only has some mods. I would bet not $5800 worth of mods

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by grawk

The goldmund at least has the huge toroid in there. And a better transport. Could be more going on as well, even if they did start with the pioneer boards as a base.

The transport is the same , they have added some damping material, enclosed it an a bigger cage and so on but it is the same Pioneer transport, how much difference the "mods" make is an open question. It is hard to see where from an engineering/component point of view the extra money is justified. The Goldmund is almost 60x more expensive than the Pioneer !.

[Faust2D]

I bet I can have my friend mod the Pioneer for $200 to be nicer than the Goldmund, with better parts as well. This is so sad.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by hciman77

While I am pretty cynical about the whole "high-end" market I had mostly assumed that most high end marques did at least spend a bit more on the design and components, regardless of whether it makes a difference or not, but this example is just egregious. I am sure it sounds great, but I would really like to see a Blind test between it and the Pioneer.

None of those mods will make a big difference as there is the same output stage with a second PCB and extra wire to mess up the signal a bit more. I'm not even sure why the toroid is there as I can't see any PSU for it unless Pioneer had one on the board to begin with. It should sound better due to the larger and better case but this is still basically a robbery.

[Herandu]

Originally Posted by spritzer

It should sound better due to the larger and better case but this is still basically a robbery.

I disagree. I don't see how a larger case would improve the sound. And buyers pay more for just the impression of a better sound as the result of a higher price. It is a psychological effect in my opinion. But manufacturers who try to sell a good design at a price below the "take it serious" factor have a hard time getting heard. Building a "high end" system out of apparently budget priced components is not hard. When testers talk about high end beaters they are not always pushing a product, but are often than not expressing a genuine view. I wish every manufacturer published the inside of their equipment. Then more of this sort of price mark up would be less common.

[spritzer]

Originally Posted by Herandu

I disagree. I don't see how a larger case would improve the sound. And buyers pay more for just the impression of a better sound as the result of a higher price. It is a psychological effect in my opinion. But manufacturers who try to sell a good design at a price below the "take it serious" factor have a hard time getting heard. Building a "high end" system out of apparently budget priced components is not hard. When testers talk about high end beaters they are not always pushing a product, but are often than not expressing a genuine view. I wish every manufacturer published the inside of their equipment. Then more of this sort of price mark up would be less common.

A better/stronger case doesn't vibrate and ring like a tin can and that causes the components to vibrate which is clearly audible. If you have ever stuck your head inside a Meridan CDP or a Naim unit then you can see how they tackle the problem without using the heavy artillery (really thick aluminum panels) like Esoteric. The glass plate on top or all recent Meridian players isn't purely decorative.

A larger chassis allows the PSU to be placed further away from the sensitive audio circuit. A single inch can make a huge difference especially since we are dealing with nasty and noisy SMPS units.

[hciman77]

Originally Posted by spritzer

A better/stronger case doesn't vibrate and ring like a tin can and that causes the components to vibrate which is clearly audible. If you have ever stuck your head inside a Meridan CDP or a Naim unit then you can see how they tackle the problem without using the heavy artillery (really thick aluminum panels) like Esoteric. The glass plate on top or all recent Meridian players isn't purely decorative.

Hmmm. Maybe I have just been lucky but apart from a faulty Rotel unit none of my various CD/DVD devices have shown any tendency to vibrate noticeably. With my DVD-ROM drive on my laptop PC I do sometime get really serious shaking from some discs but my audio units are all pretty shake-free and I sit very close to my listening set-up (less than 2 feet away). My Onkyo does make a slight chik chik chik noise on pause though.

Isnt vibration a function of bad transport alignment ?