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Would Virtual Dynamics Genesis 1.1 AES/EBU be better than Siltech Firewire for Redbook CD?
The complete dCS system is one of the best on the market and best sounding systems you can get. But at almost 50.000 dollars/euro's not much people can afford it!
People complained of my crappy source, so I borrowed money from the bank and upgraded from my Benchmark DAC1 to dCS Elgar Plus DAC and dCS Verdi Encore transport (DSD upsampling, Firewire and word clock). But it sounded bad because I didn't hear the sound of real life anymore, it was flat and boring.
Computer transport is great
The 100 times more expensive CD transport sounded worse than my tweaked computer. Even my 192kbps mp3's sounded better than SACD! After I put Magix levitation feet under the Verdi it got smoother with more low-level detail, but it still sounded worse than my levitating computer because it sounded too flat, smooth and neutral. So I kept listening to my computer instead because it's both heavier and sharper than neutral which makes it sound more like real life (the heaviness is from fat Valhalla power cord and the sharpness is from jitter).
Problem with noise through cables
My computer is connected to my DAC with a cheap Toslink and it sounds very clean. But with the Verdi, I noticed problems with the Firewire connection. Whenever the Verdi was turned on it made my system sound bright, harsh and edgy. When I put the Verdi in standby it was smooth and clean again. To further test this, I connected a stock RCA cable from the computer to the Verdi. There was horrible brightness! My system isn't grounded anywhere and the ground noise from the computer went through the RCA cable.
I also tried to listen to the DSD upsampled computer signal through the Verdi... It got smoother but it was worse overall. Having the computer isolated from the audio system gave better sound even when using 44.1kHz and cheap Toslink.
Conclusion: So, the 44.1kHz computer with Toslink sounds better to me than the 100 times more expensive dCS Verdi Encore with DSD upsampling. I also get the best sound with the Verdi turned off!
Nobody wants to buy the Verdi from me now after this review, so I guess I'm going to keep it, it may come useful in the future somehow. I think I'm going to wrap the Firewire cables in ERS Paper to see if it makes a difference.
I can tell ya that my modded amp, hd 650 and source sounds much better then anything played on my computer! And i use expensive drives in my computer, like plextor.....On the other system i have good monitors but they are no match for my home rig!
Ever tried the dCS system without the filters and stuff?! Most high end systems have some kind of filtering inside the amp sections and don't benefit from expensive filtering! If you have first class powwersections in your exuipment, like ac and dc filtering, you don't need any powerfilter or powerplant! I found out they only take away quite some detail!
Just plug it straight in and listen...
To me, it sounds that you like some kind of coloration in the sound then pure clean sound...it can sound dull and boring, but it is the cleanest sound you'll ever get....
I also read a review from one that heard the complete system and he was blown away by it! He said you can easally pick out every player in a large orchestra(and i mean really large orchestra), not much systems can do that! It could be that the dCS system is limited by the headphone, since headphones are not that good in portraying large orchestra's etc........In this case, a good speaker setup might benefit more form the system/source then a headphone... really high end speaker system are way much better then any headphone i heard...But they cost ya a fortune!
You might wanna ask NIK (nikola), as he was thinking of upgrading to the complete dCS system a while ago, so he Might have heard it.......see what he thinks.....
Last edited by tourmaline; 05-20-2008 at 01:46 AM.
Ever tried the dCS system without the filters and stuff?! Most high end systems have some kind of filtering inside the amp sections and don't benefit from expensive filtering! If you have first class powwersections in your exuipment, like ac and dc filtering, you don't need any powerfilter or powerplant! I found out they only take away quite some detail!
Just plug it straight in and listen...
To me, it sounds that you like some kind of coloration in the sound then pure clean sound...it can sound dull and boring, but it is the cleanest sound you'll ever get....
I have made a lot of experiments with power cords and power conditioning with the dCS rig. Nordost Valhalla power cord made it worse than stock power cable. But Virtual Dynamics Genesis 1.1 made it better in every way.
I also tried power conditioners. I added a Premier Power Plant and got more fullness and low-level detail, I added a Quintet power conditioner between the Premier and wall and got even more low-level detail. Bypassing the Premier (with two daisy chained Genesis) and plugging the dCS DAC into the Quintet gave edgier sound with less low-level detail. Both the Premier and Quintet need to be there.
Originally Posted by tourmaline
I also read a review from one that heard the complete system and he was blown away by it! He said you can easally pick out every player in a large orchestra(and i mean really large orchestra), not much systems can do that! It could be that the dCS system is limited by the headphone, since headphones are not that good in portraying large orchestra's etc........
Yes, I think the K1000 are the weakness in my system because they sound too boomy and veiled. This also explains why I like to add jitter/edginess from the computer to compensate for it.
There isn't a picture I've been able to find which shows a man facepalming clean through his skull pushing his face out through the back of his head. I will endeavour though, to have one commissioned thus that it might be deployed in future for such threads as this.
The complete dCS system is one of the best on the market and best sounding systems you can get. But at almost 50.000 dollars/euro's not much people can afford it!
I tried SACD and it sounded the same as Redbook CD, it is probably because of my Magix levitation feet which makes Redbook CD sound very smooth. Maybe Magix converts Redbook CD into SACD!
All my reference classical SACD albums sound very bad, I think it's because of bad recording gear. I bought the same albums as all the reviewers use and the quality of those albums haven't improved much in a couple years of tweaking my system. They are only "high quality" when a single sound is playing, but when there are many sounds playing at the same time they blend together and it gets muddy. Trance music doesn't have this problem because all sounds are mixed together. My 192 kbps trance mp3's from computer are higher quality than classical SACD from my dCS system.
It appears that the Firewire noise from Verdi CD transport compensates for the muddiness of classical albums which makes it appear more transparent. It's similar to using Valhalla interconnect or speaker cable to add fake transparency to the sound. But when messing with the sound it removes low-level detail in the process, I don't like that, I might as well use Toslink from the computer instead because it sounds cleaner without that noise. However, Toslink has more jitter so it doesn't get any better, it only changes the flavor.
dCS should build a new setup that uses an optical connection. In the mean time I will unplug the Verdi and use my computer + Toslink because it gives cleaner sound and more jitter. A transport with an electrical connection isn't worth anything to me, no matter how little jitter it has. I don't think anyone wants to buy my Verdi after reading this thread so I'm going to try a Genesis AES/EBU cable to see if it fixes the noise.
I tried SACD and it sounded the same as Redbook CD, it is probably because of my Magix levitation feet which makes Redbook CD sound very smooth. Maybe Magix converts Redbook CD into SACD!
All my reference classical SACD albums sound very bad, I think it's because of bad recording gear. I bought the same albums as all the reviewers use and the quality of those albums haven't improved much in a couple years of tweaking my system. They are only "high quality" when a single sound is playing, but when there are many sounds playing at the same time they blend together and it gets muddy. Trance music doesn't have this problem because all sounds are mixed together. My 192 kbps trance mp3's from computer are higher quality than classical SACD from my dCS system.
It appears that the Firewire noise from Verdi CD transport compensates for the muddiness of classical albums which makes it appear more transparent. It's similar to using Valhalla interconnect or speaker cable to add fake transparency to the sound. But when messing with the sound it removes low-level detail in the process, I don't like that, I might as well use Toslink from the computer instead because it sounds cleaner without that noise. However, Toslink has more jitter so it doesn't get any better, it only changes the flavor.
dCS should build a new setup that uses an optical connection. In the mean time I will unplug the Verdi and use my computer + Toslink because it gives cleaner sound and more jitter. A transport with an electrical connection isn't worth anything to me, no matter how little jitter it has. I don't think anyone wants to buy my Verdi after reading this thread so I'm going to try a Genesis AES/EBU cable to see if it fixes the noise.
If you want good mastered cd's, buy xrcd, xrcd2 or k2hd cd's! By far better then any standard cd i've heard. K2hd is an evolution of xrcd and has even better low end, the k2hd cd's have rock solid very low bass...and add more detail to the sound as well. So, obviously, with good care and equipment, there is still lots to gain in cd quality! But most have gone the lazy way and turned to sacd! A good mastered k2hd is as good or even better then sacd!
Last edited by tourmaline; 05-22-2008 at 05:42 PM.
There isn't a picture I've been able to find which shows a man facepalming clean through his skull pushing his face out through the back of his head. I will endeavour though, to have one commissioned thus that it might be deployed in future for such threads as this.
You don't have to read or answer in this thread if you don't like it.
There isn't a picture I've been able to find which shows a man facepalming clean through his skull pushing his face out through the back of his head. I will endeavour though, to have one commissioned thus that it might be deployed in future for such threads as this.
I have found that an optical connection sounds better when having a dozen RGC-24 Ground Conditioners plugged into the DAC. Without them it wasn't revealing enough to show the noise from the Firewire connection. But when going past half a dozen RGC-24, the importance of an optical connection becomes more apparent.
My Verdi Encore is in a box beside my bed now. I plugged the Genesis power cord into my computer and surprisingly the computer benefited the most from that cable. I would rather have computer + Genesis than Verdi Encore + stock cable.
Linear Mode
