Cost of high-end

[progo]

The recent thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/hi-...layers-319529/ has raised some thoughts on the prices. I really don't have a clue about the running prices of devices that could be ranked as high-end. Yes, the term itself means the most expensive components money can buy, but some sort of references of possible prices would be in place, don't you think!
I've been looking for a nice DAC and the problem is that I have the mentality of buying only best because it's cheapest in the long run. And then while many recommend here some good dacs, about $1k, somebody else says "I regard mid-fi dacs to be $2-3k" that confuses me a bit.

So, what are the price ranges for high-end equipment: CDPs, plain DACs, turntables etc? There might be some extremely expensive stuff like the $300k turntable but please describe the more "normal" highend price class for these. Thanks!

Addendum: Some examples would be helpful. The research of the specs of high-end equipment can be revealing.

[Jolida302]

Originally Posted by progo

The recent thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/hi-...layers-319529/ has raised some thoughts on the prices. I really don't have a clue about the running prices of devices that could be ranked as high-end. Yes, the term itself means the most expensive components money can buy, but some sort of references of possible prices would be in place, don't you think!
I've been looking for a nice DAC and the problem is that I have the mentality of buying only best because it's cheapest in the long run. And then while many recommend here some good dacs, about $1k, somebody else says "I regard mid-fi dacs to be $2-3k" that confuses me a bit.

So, what are the price ranges for high-end equipment: CDPs, plain DACs, turntables etc? There might be some extremely expensive stuff like the $300k turntable but please describe the more "normal" highend price class for these. Thanks!

Addendum: Some examples would be helpful. The research of the specs of high-end equipment can be revealing.

Digital, beside being mediocre compared to analog, is an extremely expensive technology. There are musical integrated CDP around 1200/1500 dollars (mainly the little English: Rega, entry level Naim, Rotel, Arcam) but if you want something really working, you have to invest a lot!! Something affordable and which works quite nice (in integrated) is the Linn Ikemi. You can find it on second hand at a fair price.
Now if you want real working digital, you must invest in a big digital drive/converter setup, count at least 10 000 to 50 000 dollars.

[progo]

Thank you. I'm not myself planning on buying any great-grade high end by definition, just curious. (My next purchase is likely to be a CDP or amp about a grand.)

[White Mike]

Originally Posted by Jolida302

Digital, beside being mediocre compared to analog, is an extremely expensive technology. There are musical integrated CDP around 1200/1500 dollars (mainly the little English: Rega, entry level Naim, Rotel, Arcam) but if you want something really working, you have to invest a lot!! Something affordable and which works quite nice (in integrated) is the Linn Ikemi. You can find it on second hand at a fair price.
Now if you want real working digital, you must invest in a big digital drive/converter setup, count at least 10 000 to 50 000 dollars.

Oh my , I think the response above shows you the real cost of going high-end: Sanity...

[Elephas]

I suggest not being so fixated on price.

Yes, price is an indicator of quality, and you often get what you pay for. But one of the reasons to participate in an audio discussion forum is to discover the "true" values behind various gear. Some gear punch above their weight, despite humble pricing or lack of flashy marketing. This is often the gear many of us are looking for.

Listening for yourself is the only way to develop your own taste and opinions, leading to your own judgment of pricing and value. It can take time, and over months of ownership your opinions might change. A DAC you might consider over-priced a few months ago could become an excellent value today.

One way to evaluate pricing is to look at the prices of used gear. Retail prices for audio gear are often over-inflated. They are not indicative of real market prices, and therefore the prices people are willing to pay.

[Herandu]

Many people would tell you that price is related to quality, but who made up that formula? I doubt very much that my house is of the same price as a similarly built house by the same building firm from the same plans. built closer to the city centre. Mine is at the outskirts of town by the way.
Having had a friend who owned a Ferrari 400i in the 70's, I wouldn't say that it was any better in build quality than the cheaper Porsche 911.

A lot of the cost is tied up in the labour cost, and the amount spent on marketing. Given the same components and circuit layout, building an item in China would be a fraction of building it in the UK or the USA. What the product sells for afterwards is another matter. Those with money to burn would always like to know they paid more than the Jones's for their hifi, and mentally they prepare themselves into believing that it also sounds better. Manufacturers prey on our believes, and that makes the money go round.

[tfarney]

I don't think there is an answer to your question, because opinion varies so widely. As an example...

Digital, beside being mediocre compared to analog, is an extremely expensive technology. There are musical integrated CDP around 1200/1500 dollars (mainly the little English: Rega, entry level Naim, Rotel, Arcam) but if you want something really working, you have to invest a lot!! Something affordable and which works quite nice (in integrated) is the Linn Ikemi. You can find it on second hand at a fair price.
Now if you want real working digital, you must invest in a big digital drive/converter setup, count at least 10 000 to 50 000 dollars.

...I can find almost nothing in that paragraph that doesn't strike me as dead wrong. In fact, the way I see it, digital and analog each have their strengths and weaknesses, and the digital's greatest strengths manifest themselves in very affordable gear.

The harsh, hashy days of digital have been gone for a long time. What folks are hearing these days is the strengths of the format revealing the weaknesses of their recordings. Get a really well-recorded, well-mastered cd, play it back through good (not great, not esoteric) electronics into really good speakers or cans and it will sound great. Will it sound exactly like vinyl? No. It will not have vinyls colorations and when audiophiles talk about cdps that "sound analog," or "musical," they're usually talking about equipment that has coloration, ie "warmth" engineered into it. Whether or not that is better or worse is your call and no one else's.

Tim

[bigshot]

Salesmen are not your friend. Before you spend a lot of money on any audio component, make them put away their charts and scientific sales pitch and show you how the equipment *sounds*. Have them set up price points from the lowest end of the scale to the highest you are interested in, and demonstrate exactly how much better sound is for each extra dollar you spend. I think you'll find that money spent on speakers and headphones is well spent. And spending a lot of money on electronics is wasteful.

See ya
Steve

[gyrodec]

How about this as a workable definition - High-end is that price where you seriously second-guess yourself about a purchase because you not immediately sure that next step can be worth the money (but probbaly end up buying it anyway).

For me that would be about 4K for a turntable setup, 2-3k for CD, DAC orAmp and 1k for headphone amp. Your millage will definately vary as only you have your exact sized savings account and sense of value-for-money.

[chesebert]

Originally Posted by bigshot

Salesmen are not your friend. Before you spend a lot of money on any audio component, make them put away their charts and scientific sales pitch and show you how the equipment *sounds*. Have them set up price points from the lowest end of the scale to the highest you are interested in, and demonstrate exactly how much better sound is for each extra dollar you spend. I think you'll find that money spent on speakers and headphones is well spent. And spending a lot of money on electronics is wasteful.

See ya
Steve

how much is a lot of money? There is a diminish rate of return for spkr just like there is one for electronics; spending disproportional amount on any single component will not get you very far.