Cambridge Audio 840C...some thoughts and comparisons

[White Mike]

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen

I'll admit, it pizzes me off to know someone prefers a $20 PS1 as their CDP, but I'm not convinced I would hear it the same way in my system vs the Azur... (shrugs)

+1 on that.
For me the PS1 thing smacks far too much as an example of Hi-Fi subjectivism/mysticism gone mad. The same 3-4 demos and articles that keep getting brought up in defence of the claim make me suspicious as well.
The PS1 may be a surprisingly musical sounding player but every time someone says it sounds great through a tube amp, or indeed a high end system of any sort, I'm forced to roll my eyes. My Nokia will sound better - that is more musical - through a tube stage, it's what they're best at. Is there anything wrong with that? Not at all.... but I wouldn't use that as a basis to rank it against a good $500 CDP let alone anything above that.

I would also have thought anyone that has put any stock in the attention put into various CDP features - advancements in transports, power supplies, servo stages, output stages, grounding and DACs - would also risk exposing themselves to the claim of hypocrisy if even a quarter of the claims I've heard in favour of the PS1 were true. I'm mean why all the effort then?

To be honest, I have no issue at all with those that prefer the more subjective approach to Hi-Fi, or seek musicality over accuracy. I personally believe a mix of both objective and subjective is the only way to enjoy this game, you have to trust your ears at some point . Unfortunately my pro-audio background is one that has taught me to value (and enjoy) accuracy and clarity above all else. I want to hear it as it was recorded to the disc, for better or worse... and these days an 840C is currently one of the best bang-for-your-buck ways to get that...

[selfdivider]

I hear you, White Mike, on how you should approach audio not only subjectively but objectively as well. Before you think that I'm bashing on 840C, you should know I had 840C in my system for a couple months and if you look in my previous posts, you'll see that I was one of the guys who came to the fore about the 840C and praised it highly in this forum and elsewhere. Then I heard the PS1 in my system, and as I've said, whatever happened happened.

One thing that I don't understand is why it should piss anyone off if someone likes one component or the other. What's up with that? Another thing I don't like is the usual simplistic cliche/stereotyping... if you like certain component, you must be a subjectivist, and if you like the other, you must be an objectivist, that kind of reductive bs. What is this, some audio Bloods vs. Crips or something? Lame. I think White Mike has it exactly right when he says you have to have the right balance of subjective & the objective.

That said, on PS1: rolled eyes or not, many people do like it. Some people will get it. Some people won't. Skullguise and I DEFINITELY hear glare/sheen on Cambridge Audio 840C, some people can't. Based on that, would I roll my eyes at people who don't/can't hear that? No... because as Jay-Z says in "Heart of the City," - "What I eat don't make you sh*t." Who the hell cares?!? We all hear differently, at different times.

And as for the reasoning that PS1 must be crap b/c it's a crap video game machine from the past, and it's all voodoo... I'd say that's faulty logic, too. If you know John Devore at all, in fact, if you know any artisanal speaker makers, they're hard core into science of it all. They have to be, in order to build top-end speakers which sound well, as well as measure well. Which means they approach each component objectively first, with skepticism. When he puts in PS1 confidently at a show & not in his living room, I'm sure he's not doing it on a roll of the dice or voodoo magic. Another example is John Marks of Stereophile who reviewed PS1 in April issue; it was an unfavorable review. He said it wasn't worth the trouble & plans to sell his unit on ebay again (he seems to have gotten one with a tracking problem). But even with the negative review, he still preferred its sound to the $999 Music Hall CDP/receiver. Given the fact that he didn't like the PS1 much, I'd say his opinion was pretty objective.

At the end of it all, I think you have to approach everything with an open mind, w/o prejudice. There's no doubt that 840C represents one of the best bang-for-the-buck, I never questioned that. With the digital-in, it's a killer, and I seriously debated on keeping it, even just to use it with my SB3. I'm still trying to get a CDP with a digital-in, b/c 840C was just too convenient like that... I don't think I can get a traditional CDP anymore, which is one of the reasons why I won't buy the Primare or Consonance players...

But seriously, I don't get why some people have to be so dogmatic about their approach to audio, that they just have to assume the worst about some people's preference or approach - oh he must be a dunce following rumors, etc., it just CAN'T be good. Seems pretty condescending to me. Doesn't seem too objective either. As a matter of fact, it's the exact opposite of objectivity if you think about it. Because that kind of judgment operates out of assumptions and pre-conceived opinions. I'm not saying I'm the de facto objectivist here (I don't even want to be that kind of an objectivist anyways), but at least I tried both approaches with an open mind. I liked 840C a lot, but I just liked PS1 better. That's that.

[skullguise]

Wow, some great thoughts here. Hats off to all of you - especially selfdivider, you seem quite the gentleman - for keeping it pretty calm, given the way this has gone.

I ended up grabbing fierce_freak's balanced Opus DAC off the FS forums. I think it will serve me very well, at 1/3 the list of the 840C. I already have a couple machines that are good transports.

[progo]

I have been toying with the idea of getting 840C mostly for DACcing my computer. It has balanced outputs and it's warm. Like everything I like in my dac. And a good grade CD player is not harmful either. Would you buy this CDP for very occasional CD rolling and mostly for DAC? It certainly is cheap-ish.

[skullguise]

Originally Posted by progo

I have been toying with the idea of getting 840C mostly for DACcing my computer. It has balanced outputs and it's warm. Like everything I like in my dac. And a good grade CD player is not harmful either. Would you buy this CDP for very occasional CD rolling and mostly for DAC? It certainly is cheap-ish.

Hi,

I don't think I've ever heard it described as "warm." It is certainly accurate/detailed. Some of us have heard some glare (we are in the minority), others have not.

It certainly is amazing in flexibility and functionality, and the sound IS great. But again, I wouldn't call it warm. All that said, it could be a great addition to the type of system you have, where CD and DAC functionality are both used. By NOT getting it, that is one thing I'll miss.

[progo]

Originally Posted by skullguise

I don't think I've ever heard it described as "warm." It is certainly accurate/detailed. Some of us have heard some glare (we are in the minority), others have not.

It certainly is amazing in flexibility and functionality, and the sound IS great. But again, I wouldn't call it warm. All that said, it could be a great addition to the type of system you have, where CD and DAC functionality are both used. By NOT getting it, that is one thing I'll miss.

I've heard that term in such context as with being compared with Benchmark DAC-1 but that could be because of the opponent. The warmness is not the main priority but once I heard some high-end dac and it lacked the nice, warm bass. I assumed it's one of the cold and analytical sound properties.

[selfdivider]

Skullguise... congrats on the Opus DAC purchase! Let us know how you like it, as I'm still looking for a DAC. A lot of people are urging me to try the Channel Islands DAC? I might give it a shot, given the cost... sounds like a deal.

Progo - for your needs, the Cambridge Audio 840C might be perfect. I really enjoyed it when I had it, especially the convenience of it. Can't beat that. Although I agree w/ Skullguise & wouldn't call it warm, it's a very smooth-sounding player, and involving, too. It's not cold & analytical like how you're thinking. You might like it especially more b/c you'll go balanced, which I heard improves the performance in the 840C noticeably, especially the bass.

[progo]

Originally Posted by selfdivider

Progo - for your needs, the Cambridge Audio 840C might be perfect. I really enjoyed it when I had it, especially the convenience of it. Can't beat that. Although I agree w/ Skullguise & wouldn't call it warm, it's a very smooth-sounding player, and involving, too. It's not cold & analytical like how you're thinking. You might like it especially more b/c you'll go balanced, which I heard improves the performance in the 840C, especially the bass.

Nice to know, many thanks.

[Hi-Finthen]

Originally Posted by selfdivider

I hear you, White Mike, on how you should approach audio not only subjectively but objectively as well. Before you think that I'm bashing on 840C, you should know I had 840C in my system for a couple months and if you look in my previous posts, you'll see that I was one of the guys who came to the fore about the 840C and praised it highly in this forum and elsewhere. Then I heard the PS1 in my system, and as I've said, whatever happened happened.

One thing that I don't understand is why it should piss anyone off if someone likes one component or the other. What's up with that? Another thing I don't like is the usual simplistic cliche/stereotyping... if you like certain component, you must be a subjectivist, and if you like the other, you must be an objectivist, that kind of reductive bs. What is this, some audio Bloods vs. Crips or something? Lame. I think White Mike has it exactly right when he says you have to have the right balance of subjective & the objective.

That said, on PS1: rolled eyes or not, many people do like it. Some people will get it. Some people won't. Skullguise and I DEFINITELY hear glare/sheen on Cambridge Audio 840C, some people can't. Based on that, would I roll my eyes at people who don't/can't hear that? No... because as Jay-Z says in "Heart of the City," - "What I eat don't make you sh*t." Who the hell cares?!? We all hear differently, at different times.

And as for the reasoning that PS1 must be crap b/c it's a crap video game machine from the past, and it's all voodoo... I'd say that's faulty logic, too. If you know John Devore at all, in fact, if you know any artisanal speaker makers, they're hard core into science of it all. They have to be, in order to build top-end speakers which sound well, as well as measure well. Which means they approach each component objectively first, with skepticism. When he puts in PS1 confidently at a show & not in his living room, I'm sure he's not doing it on a roll of the dice or voodoo magic. Another example is John Marks of Stereophile who reviewed PS1 in April issue; it was an unfavorable review. He said it wasn't worth the trouble & plans to sell his unit on ebay again (he seems to have gotten one with a tracking problem). But even with the negative review, he still preferred its sound to the $999 Music Hall CDP/receiver. Given the fact that he didn't like the PS1 much, I'd say his opinion was pretty objective.

At the end of it all, I think you have to approach everything with an open mind, w/o prejudice. There's no doubt that 840C represents one of the best bang-for-the-buck, I never questioned that. With the digital-in, it's a killer, and I seriously debated on keeping it, even just to use it with my SB3. I'm still trying to get a CDP with a digital-in, b/c 840C was just too convenient like that... I don't think I can get a traditional CDP anymore, which is one of the reasons why I won't buy the Primare or Consonance players...

But seriously, I don't get why some people have to be so dogmatic about their approach to audio, that they just have to assume the worst about some people's preference or approach - oh he must be a dunce following rumors, etc., it just CAN'T be good. Seems pretty condescending to me. Doesn't seem too objective either. As a matter of fact, it's the exact opposite of objectivity if you think about it. Because that kind of judgment operates out of assumptions and pre-conceived opinions. I'm not saying I'm the de facto objectivist here (I don't even want to be that kind of an objectivist anyways), but at least I tried both approaches with an open mind. I liked 840C a lot, but I just liked PS1 better. That's that.

Thanks for the more detailed reply, in ansewering some of the many questions which come to mind to anyone who , having the C.A. Azur in their system, naturally would have come to mind; Ig. burn-in (which now you say was running for 50 days), on and on, trying to square how it is a seemingly,(although now I can see that isn't the case), drive by poster chips in (without much of the follow-up info, given, then only upon being challenged), "the Playstation v1 "outclassed" the 840c in my system" a $10,000 system.

As you say, if my position was out of line, then my bad. No foul intended ...


Skullguiese, best of luck with the new Dac solution from fiercefreek, who IIRC bought the 840c replacing it(?)...

Back to the subject, no one addresed the source material being played, other than what I was trying to allude to with folks, in terms of their preference for the most analog sounding, which is an ideal, difficult, if not nearly unheard of "due to the digital source medium itself in combination with the materials mixing" especially if ones referance is causing folks to deal with the many drawbacks of T.T.s or exclusively $2400 machines or $20 PSv1s.... At this point no reply is necessary, as I'm now satisfied in my comprehension of the issues...

Not at all trying to be combative or defensive, but just to further flesh out in specific terms these positions for further understanding...Which I'm satisfied with, at this point, both due to the discussion, and my understanding now derived from it...

In any event, my 740c is settling in quite nicely, now in its 9th day of all but continuous operation, playing "lay It down" Cowboy Junkies, gorgeously here, without my tube pre inline...Bloods, lol

P.S. , we have nearly all been exposed to interjections of the typical arguement of what's most important to achievement of sonic bliss, in hardware choices in a system, specificly to wit, Speakers matter most or Source first exclusivity, rather than the mainstream of the majority, I believe from experience to be, a balanced "system" delivers best results in and towards, the persuit of the ever compromised ideal of "sonic bliss"... And perhaps this too, is a good part of the very real issue I have with believing any other such system configuration of either/or thinking, delivering those experiences (build issues and or, utility aside),of near(albeit ever compromised), sonic bliss...

In conclusion, "If it sound "good", it is good"-
-peace

[Hi-Finthen]

Originally Posted by progo

I've heard that term in such context as with being compared with Benchmark DAC-1 but that could be because of the opponent. The warmness is not the main priority but once I heard some high-end dac and it lacked the nice, warm bass. I assumed it's one of the cold and analytical sound properties.

From my both research and now from two dealers, the Azur line, more specifically the 740c has been refered to as Apollo like (warm),but with tighter bass, in terms of its sonic signature; Again and importlantly, post burn-in!!!

Also, I've read conflicting reports of going balanced vs single ended, actually increacing bass performance between the two Azur models. As well as owners testing balanced vs single ended performance when volume matched(difficult to do), affording conclusive positive results in favor of going balanced. Its a close call at best, which from my reading could simply very well be a slight increased albeit marginal experience, due to the quality of the hardware employed and paid for, of course!

Hope this helps some in your decisions~