Bel Canto DAC3 2007 - info/impressions?

[MaloS]

Hah...I like that pic of HP-4 with DAC3, very good looking combo =]

Personally I am not particularly hyped about Pico, it is good for what it is, but there are many ways to improve. Wonder exactly how much DAC3 has on Pico, in order to make you miss it?
Also, have anyone here tried DAC3 in balanced operation with a balanced amp for 650 or something?

[SR-71Panorama]

Originally Posted by MaloS

Personally I am not particularly hyped about Pico, it is good for what it is, but there are many ways to improve. Wonder exactly how much DAC3 has on Pico, in order to make you miss it?

Well to my ears, on my system, the 2 DACs have different sound signatures. There are some areas that are subtle differences, i.e. midrange, and overall neutrality, but there are also clear differences. Whereas the DAC3 is completely balanced and neutral, when switching to the Pico I can't ignore the fact that the bass changes significantly. It is a little more 'present' and full. I don't want to call it bloated, because I have heard bloated bass in the Emu 0404 USB and the Pico is in another league from that. Its kind of hard to point down, but I guess the mere presence of the difference is what I can't stop thinking about.

And as great as the Pico sounds, the top end is just plain better on the DAC3. It seems to have greater resolution and texture, and possibly extend higher. I would say that the high end is where this dac is separated from all the others I've heard, and is the most obvious quality of the dac. It does not feel too bright or too dark; it just is. (if that makes any sense)
It doesn't seem to make everything bright and sweet, or cold and clinical; if I listen to a sweet and syrupy recording, thats how it sounds. And visa versa for cold/sterile recordings. I guess you could say the DAC3 imparts relatively no character of its own to the sound. And thats what I have come to like. I'm sure this all sounds formulaic and cheesy, but its honestly what I hear.
I used to enjoy a 'fun' and bassy sound, but have found that it distorts music that doesn't have those qualities. Rather than try to fit all music to a mold of a desired sound, I would rather let the recording itself dictate how it sounds. In the long run, this method has provided me with far, far greater satisfaction than products like the Emu or Transit.
But I will say that the Pico is the most neutral source I have heard for $500.

**I'd also like to mention, all the above is in regards to the USB input on both DACs; the optical of the Bel Canto is even better than the USB counterpart

[hanalei mike]

Originally Posted by SR-71Panorama

**I'd also like to mention, all the above is in regards to the USB input on both DACs; the optical of the Bel Canto is even better than the USB counterpart

In an email response from John Stronczer of Bel Canto, He told me that usb will sound better then the TOSLINK. I have been a/b ing between the two, and I haven't decided yet, at first I thought the TOSLINK sounded best, but John made the thing, I am sure he knows which should sound best.
One thing I noticed that I would like to point out is that the dac3 will improve drastically in sound quality after 72 hours on being turned on. I read this in the manual, and didn't pay much attention to it as most manufacturers say it is best to leave their stuff on all the time.
To be honest, when I first plugged it in I thought I had made a mistake selling my dac1. It sounded kind of flat, and rolled off in the highs. I had been a/b ing between the dac3 as a preamp, and another preamp for 2 days solid. On the morning of the third day, within minutes of playing the same songs that I am sure all my neighbors know the words too by now, I said to myself, "holy crap this sounds good". I thought with all the cable changing I had been doing that maybe I had a button or switched pushed in that I had missed, or had a power cord plugged into a different receptacle on my conditioner. And then I remembered the thing about 72 hours. It blossomed. The highs extended, and were very smooth, the sound stage deepened, the images became more 3d like I could turn my head and look behind them, and image separation is amazing, and the soundstage widened a bit to.
I am comparing the dac3 day 1 vs. day 3. I had sold the dac1 before I got the dac3 so I couldn't do a direct a/b of the two. But, I have been noticing many new things in music I am very very familiar with, so that would say to me that the dac3 is more detailed then the dac1, but, I was running the dac1 through a tube pre???????
All I know is that this is an amazing little box, my hopes were that I would be able to be happy with the dac3 as a preamp until I could afford a Cary slp-05, but now I think I may be able to be happy, period.

edit: Nope. The tube preamp is back in the chain. Sounds flat without it, less real, less bass, highs not as sparkly.

[shiosai]

I have owned the DAC3 since its first release (sn less than 50), and still like it a lot, the only thing is that the input from computer to its USB, I would not consider using (sound-wise). Forget USB. I use CEC TL51XR as transport to DAC3, it is almost analogue sounding, very musical. The CEC is also a CDP, but I prefer the sound of DAC3 over the CEC.

The time when I heard the Lavry and found them thin sounding but I want to give them another crack. I had Benchmark DAC1, though it's not a day and night difference from DAC1 to DAC3, the DAC1 was less musical and a bit "dry". And I value "musicality" first on top of many others (resolution, dynamic, etc). I also had the Cullen Circuits modified PS Audio Digital Link III for closed to a month, compared it side by side with DAC3, the DLIII was not as detailed sounding.

I wonder if any head-fi members have heard the underwood hifi's modified DAC3? I am getting more curious to get the DAC3 modified.

[SR-71Panorama]

Originally Posted by shiosai

I wonder if any head-fi members have heard the underwood hifi's modified DAC3? I am getting more curious to get the DAC3 modified.

That makes two of us. I almost went for it originally, but figured I can always have the work done later, so I went for the stock version.

I haven't ruled it out down the line though. Perhaps if I get a second Dac3 for use in my office, I'll opt for the Underwood version

[fkclo]

I tried to locate a 220V version of the used DAC3 but have not luck. So, what I finally did was to get a DAC3 from Underwood HiFi and have it converted to 220V, on top of a Level 2 modification.

I do hope this will be "the DAC" to have for a while given I have owned a Benchmark DAC1 USB, a Grace Design M902, a Stello DA-100, and Lavry DA-10, and a heavily modified Zhaolu D2C.

Hope to be able to report back by end of the month.

F. Lo

[spraggih]

I have tried many DACs and IMHO the best possible comparison for the DAC3 is the Lavry DA-10.

The Stello DA220 is very different-- warmer, somewhat slower (may have to do with more bass emphasis).

In any regards, the DAC3 is for me, clearly better than the DA-10. No ifs, ands or buts about it... AND I LOVED the DA-10!! Loved it so much I went looking for one -- here, Audiogon. Then came across the DAC3 and for the short time I had it never again considered the DA-10.

The DAC3 has so much better highs than the DA-10. I never knew cymbals could, should sound that way. Also the transparency is better.

Now is the DAC3 worth ($2500 - $900 USD= $1,600) more than the DA-10. IMHO -- NO! But scoring an used DAC3 for $1700+ is a great deal. Especially given all the other features (remote, USB input, etc.)

Still features aside the DAC3 is a superior DAC. I just came across a Chord DAC64 that is so unusual, almost weird sounding (in a good way) that I decided to keep the DAC64 and sell the DAC3.

No complaints though with the DAC3 -- except silly stuff like:

a) I had a hard time setting volume to 100 and fixed and having the best sound. It seemed the music was either clipping or a little too present. I found the best sound at volume 77 - 84 fixed or variable. Not sure what that is all about.

b) It has a big screen that is only used to show volume and select input (and initially show the firmware version)-- waste of screen space

c) It is big and heavy. Big and heavy.

[dreamwhisper]

I think the Bel Canto looks a bit ridiculous with its large screen that only displays volume.. I like how the DA10 looks better
Also, I wish the Bel Canto came in the color black

[SR-71Panorama]

I took some iphone pictures of the insides of the stock Bel Canto Dac3 to give people an idea of what to expect.













All the metal is very strong and non-resonant.

[MaloS]

Cool, thanks. You have to admit, it is bothersome to realize that its 2500 bucks for not all that much inside... >_<