The Zero MOD Thread - 24/192 DAC/H/Amp

[bgt]

Just had a bunch of younger people listening to the differences of the DAC's and they found the zero more full bodied than the Buffalo. So....its all relative.
I say no more.

[ccschua]

Just done up on ZERO DAC. I have take a different route though. I have switched to Panasonic FC for the power supplies and added a 2x22pF silvered mica for the output. photo to come.

[Pricklely Peete]

Hi CC,

What size FC's did you use and the V rating ?

Peete.

[ccschua]

35V3300 x 2.

16V1200 x 2 -> should have gone bigger, say 2200uF.

The measurement is 22V dc over the cap.

[Pricklely Peete]

Looks good to me CC.....going to 2200uf on the 1200uf caps won't yield much....the real key is bypassing those FC's now with a film and foil compliment.

IMO at least.

Nice job on the rebuild....

Peete.

[ccschua]

Hi PP,

Most bypass for film cap is 0.1 uF. instead of choosing 0.033uF pio, would it be better to try 0.1 uF PIO ?

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by ccschua

Hi PP,

Most bypass for film cap is 0.1 uF. instead of choosing 0.033uF pio, would it be better to try 0.1 uF PIO ?

If you can find .1uf 160V k42Y-2 then yes...the hard part is finding any because the size of them at that value in a 200V rating won't fit underneath the pcb....forget about 250V.....everything is a compromise these days. I ordered a huge pile of .047uf 200V K40Y-9's only to find out they wouldn't fit under the pcb...had to use the slightly smaller (though rated far higher V wise) .033uf 500V K42Y-2.

OTOH the .033uf 500V do a great job IMO. The prototype Frankie had .047uf 160V K42Y-2....now very hard to find with the resulting difference in sizing indistinguishable SQ wise. I don't want to go with other brand because they don't match the performance or price of the Russian greenies.....the bass with the Russian caps is untouched which is something the Vit Q cap cannot duplicate at any price.

Peete.

[powertoold]

Does adding a fat cap between the 4 and 8 pin of the HDAM really make a difference? What's the purpose of it anyway? Would it be wise to use a 4.7uf + .25uf in parallel?

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by powertoold

Does adding a fat cap between the 4 and 8 pin of the HDAM really make a difference? What's the purpose of it anyway? Would it be wise to use a 4.7uf + .25uf in parallel?

Yes...it does make a difference. Burson Audio is the original source for this mod. They recommend a cap no bigger than 1uf and greater than 50V DC rating across those pins.

I wouldn't anything larger than 1uf.

Peete.

[ccschua]

I have a feeling the 4 nos of cap supplying DAC is critial. in fact, the analogue chain after DAC is critical. So I have a feeling the 4xOscon plus the bypass is very important. what do u think.

I am even thinking of putting a socket so that I can swap in out the cap.

I have also 4xNOVER 100uF 63V which is known for neutral sounding.

[DaMnEd]

I will be putting the 4 OSCON (no bypass for now) on my dac in a few days, I plan on doing the RMAA before and after so see if it will affects performance in a measurable way .

[sennsay]

Originally Posted by ccschua

I have a feeling the 4 nos of cap supplying DAC is critial. in fact, the analogue chain after DAC is critical. So I have a feeling the 4xOscon plus the bypass is very important. what do u think.

I am even thinking of putting a socket so that I can swap in out the cap.

I have also 4xNOVER 100uF 63V which is known for neutral sounding.

Hiya cc, actually, that's what I did with my Frankie, put 4 Os-Cons in there around the DAC. I found them easier to fit than the larger 100uF Silmics. Also my Os-Cons are 180uF 16V and I did bypass them with the PIOs that PP sent me. Initially I didn't bypass them, but PP made me see the error of my ways! It is worth it!
I also popped a couple more of the little purple delights in front of the optical input, the same 180uF 16V caps. I may do more yet, as I've just had some Os-Con supplies land on the doorstep.
S-Man

P.S. Speaking of the Nover caps, I installed the audio-gd PS into KHA I.5 yesterday and it uses two 3300uF 63V Nover caps and I chose them for neutrality as suggested by Kingwa. The optional Silmics are slightly warmer sounding.
BTW, the PS gives the upgraded stock unit a serious arse-whomping in some areas! Even barely run-in. Not only exquisitely built, but sonically awesome potential in there! Popped a couple of .047uF PIOs on the Novers while I was at it.
It needs a serious heatsink though, it runs very hot, as it runs in Class A, something I didn't realise until I fired it up! I didn't really get the hints enough from Kingwa, when he kept saying to me, did you put it on a "hitsink"? Needs a hitsink, several times. Yes, Kingwa, it certainly DOES!!

[ccschua]

Wow fry. that's real serious. are u saying the cap needs a heatsink ?

I just learned putting higher voltage such as 63V has a thicker film which reduce microphobics.

Now my Panasonic FC begins to reveal its true color. When I first put in (without the green PIO bypass yet), I was like so so ah. then I just wait curiously for it to unfold. after nearly 5 days, I begin to hear the warm of it and the transparency. The punch and the body begins to throw in.

my ultrafast diode is also on the way.



I am just waiting for the PIO to arrive and I hope to be Penchuum, give me the last green sausage.

[sennsay]

Originally Posted by ccschua

Wow fry. that's real serious. are u saying the cap needs a heatsink ?

I just learned putting higher voltage such as 63V has a thicker film which reduce microphobics.

Now my Panasonic FC begins to reveal its true color. When I first put in (without the green PIO bypass yet), I was like so so ah. then I just wait curiously for it to unfold. after nearly 5 days, I begin to hear the warm of it and the transparency. The punch and the body begins to throw in.

my ultrafast diode is also on the way.



I am just waiting for the PIO to arrive and I hope to be Penchuum, give me the last green sausage.

Oops, no sorry, cc, I meant the output transistors are running in Class A and they need the heatsink! The caps are just fine.
I've put the PS on a much larger heatsink and it has been running for nearly 24 hours just fine. This is a stunning PS! Doesn't really alter the frequency balance at all, but enhances all the fine qualities of Frankie passing through KHA I.5, a lot like replacing a pretty good 50W amp in a system with a 200W beauty, effortless power from top to bottom. It hasn't had 30 hours on it yet.
Green sausages rule, dude! S-Man

P.S. BTW, all of the UF diodes on the audio-gd PS are bypassed with .01uF MKPs on the board, or MKCs, I'm not sure which, but a lot like you've done.

[Pricklely Peete]

Hi CC, S-Man,

CC check out Rock Grotto's take (Mike of Pink Floyd mods) on snubber caps on the UF4007 diodes. It might just save you some time and money ......The Nover caps are cool but the OS-CON around the DAC are the top of the heap, I'd even use them ahead of Black Gates after much research on the subject. Don't go higher than 25V rating if you can help it. You could go as low as 6.3 V on those caps (opens up a couple of possibilities not normally thought of like HQ solid polymer Mobo caps, computer rated stuff etc). I prefer Audio caps myself but that's just me.

I'm still using Panasonic FC's from the original prototype (of Frank)around the DAC. So I'm not even up to current FrankenZERO specs yet
That will change soon since I now have 3 options, thanks to friends and a local supply of hi end caps for a reasonable cost.

It's funny with all the activity of late I've actually had very little time to concentrate on the Zero at all. Some unforeseen issues (like my tube amp taking a piss didn't help...now fixed (DIY of course) for 3 dollars worth of high quality resistors ) 3 other projects waiting in the wings....fun times ahead but now I need a real soldering station....money money money.....

S-Man,

That A-GD PSU is a top priority (suddenly I can't spell for s**t, third attempt is the chaHrbnhM ? Nope, LOL.)....sigh...must be sleep deprivation or I'm a closet Crylic specialist with a English keyboard...

Let's try this again....that PSU is my next pruchase (oh man...that's it no more curritcions) For 25US ...I mean holy mother of God that's a great deal for a PSU such as that.....I could have bought 4 A-GD BEAST's + 2 toroidal transformers for the price of 1 Welborne Labs PSU1 kit !!! No offense Ron...I like the PSU1 kit...but that A-GD PSU is a far better buy by a 1000 miles.

Anyway......CC your definitely on the right track just don't worry about the diodes too much...(the UF factor is the most important aspect). Concentrate more on bypassing the caps you swap in...you'll get far greater gains SQ wise that way. As you know my cap of choice for that is the K42Y-2,K40Y-9 types.....So far I've found only two sizes and voltage ratings that will fit......160V .047uf (hard to find), .033uf 500V (much easier to source) and the .1uf 160V (sometimes hard to find). All three are K42Y-2 family which is what you want. There is now sonic difference nor construction difference between the K42 and K40 families....exactly the same caps...I'm at a loss why they need to different names....just another *"Crazy Ivan" perhaps ?

* See the film Hunt for Red October for a definition.

Caps that won't fit are .047uf 200V K40Y-9 and anything else from the Russian line up not mentioned specifically in the previous paragraph....found that out the hard way...but it worked out since I needed more bypass caps for other (low voltage ) projects I just didn't know it at that time .

BTW low voltage to me is anything not tube based


One mod I can now tackle is the wiring harness's from the H/Amp to the main board....so that will be the next Frankie mod of note (along with the DAC section lytic update ). I'm going to ditch the connectors in favor of hard wiring direct to the pcbs.....should eliminate some SQ losses due to less than desirable connector metals carrying audio signals.....steel or pot metal tin that is nickel plated is not exactly hi fidelity (IMO at least).


That's the next job on the plate for Frank

Peete.