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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2005, 03:33 PM
Pars's Avatar
Headphoneus Supremus
Can Jam '10 Organizer
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,558
Default Muting delay and offset protection circuit (Amb, modified)

An update from my previous posts before the other thread was locked. Per comments from several other members, and the realization that the two relays being used (P&B RTE24012F and Omron G6A-234P) did not have the same pinout, i modified the design to still allow either relay type to be used by adding additional jumper pads. I did not post the updated schematic file, so don't use that one (I will post the correct one next week). The board is still approximately 3" x 2.2", and features the following additions:

1) Provision for a manual mute switch bypassing the delay

2) Addition of fault/mute and on LEDs

3) Use of a 555 timer instead of the resistor/capacitor time constant for driving the relay and setting the delay. A 1M Rt and a 4.7uf Ct gives a dalay of about 5.1 seconds, etc. I believe the delay may be calculated by 1.1 * Rt * Ct. This is independent of the relay turn on characteristics.

4) Will accomodate either the newer Omron relay package (smaller) or the original Tyco form factor relays, making it easier to source

5) Does not employ the pre-packaged Darlingtons, but rather 2N3904s and (1) 2N 3906 to make parts sourcing easier (E-B-C TO-92 package). Packaged Darlingtons could certainly be used if you have them laying around.

6) Configurable relay: Per some concerns (not mine) about running the audio signal thru a relay, there are jumpers which allow the relay to be configured to short the output, with the audio not going thru the relay (unless shorted). Provisions for paralleled back-back BAT43 Schottkys are there if you don't want a dead short. As Amb noted, this will limit the offset seen on the output to 0.3V (300mV), so low impedence cans will not be completely protected in this configuration. Note that on this board layout, the Schottkys will need to be stacked as I ran out of room to handle them individually... I don't think many will use this configuration, but they are there if you want to do it that way...

I have a prototype partially built and will try to post a pic of it (and compared to Guzzler's PCB to show size difference).

Schematic:


Board:


Eagle files here:
board
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2005, 04:13 PM
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:thumbsup
great, looks very good, I like the versatility of your design very much
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 06:16 PM
Pars's Avatar
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Can Jam '10 Organizer
 
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Default Pics of prototype

Here are a couple of pics of the home-etched prototype (sorry, their a bit fuzzy). The first compares this board to Guzzler's (size wise). The second is the bottom of the board. Note the crappy wrong form factor pot which was the only 1K pot I had around. Fry's of course was out of them I don't have any electroless tinning stuff, so I just coated the board with flux and hand tinned it with the widest tip I had... looks crappy but it works.

Guzzler's and my board:


board bottom:
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2005, 04:35 AM
Pars's Avatar
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Can Jam '10 Organizer
 
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Default Question about grounds, groundplane(s) and balanced...

Was having some further thoughts about the use of this board (or a pair of them) with a balanced amp, and it occured to me that I might have the whole grounds thing wrong.

For a balanced amp, I would guess the signal grounds (L & R) should be kept separate and treated more like a signal than a ground? If so, the board design is wrong in that respect, as the grounds are tied together (L & R) and tied to a ground plane for the I/O grounds (red polygon, top layer). These are separate from the virtual ground (blue polygon, bottom layer).

Should the I/O grounds be a) separate, and b) not tied to a ground plane?

Board:
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2005, 06:57 AM
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Answered in this thread.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-12-2005, 04:10 PM
Pars's Avatar
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Well, about time to resurrect this thread. Per discussion with amb regarding the use of this board in balanced applications, etc. I decided that combining the input/output grounds was not a good idea. I therefore redid that section of the board as Guzzler's was done:



I also added a ground pad spaced 0.100" from the two V+/V- input pads to allow for a 3 pin header (Molex KK series) instead of a 2 pin for those who wished to just use their PSU ground instead of the OPA551 virtual ground. In my initial tests of my prototype and Guzzler's board with a Gilmore-lite configuration (Elpac WM071), the board will pull the V+ down approx. 100mV, so in this configuration I would stick with the OPA551. In my other Gilmore with the full-blown Gilmore PSU, I would guess that the PSU ground would be fine, but I haven't tested it yet. I am still awaiting a few parts to complete both boards (might get here today), but so far everything on the prototype has worked perfectly.

I am thinking it might be time to start considering a group buy if anyone is still interested. PCBNet (Imagineering) seems to be the best place to have the boards run (anyone with experience here feel free to chime in ).

Pricing looks like a minimum of 10 boards at $10 each (plus shipping, but that is from another suburb here in Chicago, so should be minimal). Above 10 boards the price drops to $5 each, so if we got 20 boards, the cost would be $7.50 each plus shipping to the end user from here. I would probably be up for 3-4 boards myself (including one gratis for Amb). I have not yet PM'd Jude about this, but will get permission before I start anything official.

BTW, in an email with Amb, I expressed concern about cannibalizing his board sales from his shop. He replied "No problem at all. This is an open-source project after all, and if you find enough people with interest in your board layout to make a private group buy then it's all cool."

So I guess that's where this stands at the moment. Board files are here:

schematic
board
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