FrankenZERO - A bang for buck exploration with a DIY Heart !

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete

Hi Les,

Well not exactly....what you are talking about is adding additional filtering capacity for that particular spot. The electrolytic (aluminum can radial type) cap is bypassed with a high quality PIO or film and foil, poly foil...Teflon and foil...that is anywhere from 10 to 100 times smaller in capacitance to the electrolytic cap you plan on bypassing.

<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Peete.

Hi,
Let me make sure I understand the physical connection first.

1) You solder the Bypass Cap to the same two Pad points of the cap being bypassed?

2) And you are achieving something BETTER than just replacing the cap you want to bypass with a bigger and better cap??

I'm having a problem getting a handle on this, if my first question is true.

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by les_garten

Hi,
Let me make sure I understand the physical connection first.

1) You solder the Bypass Cap to the same two Pad points of the cap being bypassed?

2) And you are achieving something BETTER than just replacing the cap you want to bypass with a bigger and better cap??

I'm having a problem getting a handle on this, if my first question is true.

No worries....let's try this ..take the stock filter caps in the Zero. The 2 large 2200uf 25V TKE..or whatever they are. Ideally speaking you replace those low cost budget caps with far higher quality Nichicon or Rubycon, your favorite audio cap of choice. I like to double the uf filtering capacity/current storage for the main PSU cap bank. So now you've installed a pair of 4700uf 25V Nichicon PW's (the Frankie uses these)in place of those stock caps. Then you add a pair of .033uf 500V PIO K42Y-2, or .1uf 160V, .047uf 160V, (whatever you can get that fits underneath the board and chassis) film and foil caps to those 2 Nichicons you just installed. You solder one PIO cap in parallel per electrolytic cap as specified in the mod instructions. The two different types compliment each other allowing for a far better electrical/sonic result.

It might help to wiki or google bypassing electrolytic caps with film and foil types for an in depth explanation of the practice. It's still not used like I have done in main stream manufacturing due to added parts and labor cost. The few manufacturers that do take the time to do this well...you'll be paying through the nose for that gear anyways....even then they may not use anything special in the way of a foil cap (like Solen...which are terrible in anything but speaker crossovers).

I hope that cleared things up a little. Right ...clear as mud eh ?

Peete.

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete

No worries....let's try this ..take the stock filter caps in the Zero. The 2 large 2200uf 25V TKE..or whatever they are. Ideally speaking you replace those low cost budget caps with far higher quality Nichicon or Rubycon, your favorite audio cap of choice. I like to double the uf filtering capacity/current storage for the main PSU cap bank.

<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>

Found this describing what you are doing here. I understand it a little better.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/41...ctrolytic-caps

[ccschua]

Just put in more juice to the ZERO DAC and replace the 4 caps to the DAC with NOVER 63V 100uF. The nover caps are specially made for audio-gd, known for neutral sounding. Also increase the digital power supply from 1200uF to 3300uF. First impression is more energetic and more neutral sound. More burn in is require before final listening. Yes burn in is required.

[Pricklely Peete]

Hi CC,

Did you buy the Nover caps from Kingwa ?

Peete.

[ccschua]

Those caps are from kingwa as free gift. They are big, cant sit in side by side straight.

I am wondering, if the volume pot does change the sound of preamp output ?

[Pricklely Peete]

Better quality pots have a substantial effect on SQ.

The Novers take ages to form CC maybe 400 hours or more. That circuit is only seeing 5V or less so the use of these 63V caps may or may not be optimum in that spot. I would sooner use 20V or less OS CON/PIO, Black Gate or OS CON bypassed with 4 NX HiQ .1uf 16V Black Gates.

But you never know what these (Nover/PIO combo) might bring to the table...you might be onto another excellent alternative...time will tell. Please do post your impressions on them once they form. I like them in the audio-gd BEAST PSU unit. I also have Kingwa's CD/DVD Coax mod output module waiting to go into my main rig transport (need parts that are in transit) although lord knows where I will find the room for 2 more largish pcbs and another (number 3) transformer in there I'll shoehorn it all in somehow

Kingwa is a generous fellow for sure. Best customer support I've ever run across bar none.

Peete.

[les_garten]

Peete,
What Volume pot are you using in yours, with a model number if you don't mind. It looks nicer than the one LC is providing is his boxes

[Pricklely Peete]

Hi Les,

It's one that LC sold me a while back. It's only markings are 100KAX2 that I can see clearly.

Peete.

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete

Hi Les,

It's one that LC sold me a while back. It's only markings are 100KAX2 that I can see clearly.

Peete.

Here's what mine looks like, I thought yours looked different than the is one.

http://www.turbonet.biz/misc/Zero/Alps.jpg

[Pricklely Peete]

Yup that's different alright (than mine). LC sold me a stepped attenuator quite some time ago (last July)...remember these are NOS parts and as such the numbers available are finite in nature. LC has sold out of these pots at least 4 times now that I can recall....he's having to take what he can find I would imagine. I bet that pot of yours is a real Alps...the Japan marking is typical of NOS Alps pots.

Peete.

[ccschua]

The Franken mod brought to great height and was surprise at it.

For another moment, I was surprise to hear the Franken couple to another tube buffer before going to the int amp. The sound quality is another step up. I think Curra has reported some gain using a buffer.

My setup is like this.

transport -> Franken Zero -> tube buffer (2x12AU7) -> Tube integrated amp -> speaker.

Without the buffer, the sound is not as full and warm. I guess this has something to do with the AD1852. Explaination given by kingwa is

Multibit DAC high and low frequency weak response is overcome by intrdocuing a buffer to be more responsive (dynamic) and extended.

To try that out, 2 buffer BU2 (From audio-gd, which he uses in DAC 100) is on the way.

[Currawong]

Peete, Someone pointed out you can get those pots LC has from here. They are likely the same ones.

ccschua: Even better, you can buy the buffer units from Kingwa to put in your own projects. I think all of his headamps have them built in.

I'm considering the FrankenZero as a project for my 3 week teaching break here. Since I suspect my Lavry wont sell until Jan, I'll probably be able to compare it.

[les_garten]

Originally Posted by Currawong

Peete, Someone pointed out you can get those pots LC has from here. They are likely the same ones.

That was me. I was curious if those were the same Pots, they sure look like the one I have.

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by ccschua

The Franken mod brought to great height and was surprise at it.

For another moment, I was surprise to hear the Franken couple to another tube buffer before going to the int amp. The sound quality is another step up. I think Curra has reported some gain using a buffer.

My setup is like this.

transport -> Franken Zero -> tube buffer (2x12AU7) -> Tube integrated amp -> speaker.

Without the buffer, the sound is not as full and warm. I guess this has something to do with the AD1852. Explaination given by kingwa is

Multibit DAC high and low frequency weak response is overcome by intrdocuing a buffer to be more responsive (dynamic) and extended.

To try that out, 2 buffer BU2 (From audio-gd, which he uses in DAC 100) is on the way.

CC,

Don't forget that no where near the amount of burn in time needed for all those caps has passed on your Frank CC....remember, until you pass 350 hours you should reserve judgment on negatives (and some positives) since these will surely change drastically as you approach the end of the forming process. Another must is the addition of the 1uf PIO for the HDAM module outlined by Burson Audio. I mean no disrespect to Kingwa but the BA cap mod is far superior in SQ to the poly box caps tied to each supply rail and ground. The difference is quite noticeable IMHO. I gave my Moon module well over 250 hours before making the *swap to a well burned in (1000 + hours on it) 1uf PIO. The benefit was quite noticeable and immediate.


Peete.

*complete removal of the HDAM poly box caps.