FrankenZERO - A bang for buck exploration with a DIY Heart !

[sennsay]

Originally Posted by dacavalcante

Yeah SS, let's make 2 toasts!
One to Penchum for introducing Zero
And another one to PP for bringing this kit out !

I also can't remeber what a stock unit sounds like... but I guess Franken must be far far ahead from it.... so much improvements were done......

Well, upgrading Zero to Franken was tuff.... not because it's a complicated thing, but due a bad solder sucker I had and used.....
There were pretty scaring moments when I thought I would mess with my zero or Franken kit caps..... Believe me it was a trully relief when the lights poped and sound came from my 650....

I even soldered a diode backwards, but lucky I realized that even before moving to the next one.....
I also desoldered a resistor thinking it was a capacitor... I got a little confused by my sight perspective..... LoL.... but no damages, I just put it back and problem solved.

Here goes a valuable tip for those who will still upgrade zero to franken:

- First Prepare caps with shrink wrap.

- Take some pictures from your Zero, specially the cables grey position, mark one of them so you know which one goes where on the white sockets.

- Start with Part 3 (headphone section upgrade), this will get you the confidence you need to go through the rest of the process and also gives you a great ideia of what is ahead.

- Then move to diodes switch.

- After that, you can replace caps in any order you want...

- The Last thing is to install the bypass caps. Think careful about the position you will fit then.... Try to stick to PP model because everytime I tried to make it different, I realized that PP already had done it the best way.


Well, I haven't done this way most of things in the process, so I know that following those steps will for sure spare you some rework, reduce risk of damaging new parts and even Zero.

Actually, dacava, that's a couple of great tips you have there! I hadn't thought of doing the amp first, because that was the least important part of the upgrade for me. The fact that the amp has improved remarkably has been a huge bonus and especially with the Denon cans. The Senns are still happiest with KHA in Mk I.5 mode.
I've always been in complete agreement that Pench and PP have done great service to the audio community that we love here!

S-Man

[dacavalcante]

Originally Posted by Doorknob

Finished doing my first DIY audio soldering project. This is something even a complete newbie can do, just replace and bypass caps.

I'd say it took about a total of 6 hours to complete the whole mod. 1 hour for the head amp and the HDAM cap mod, then the rest 5 hours without almost any breaks to complete the main board. Do your back a favor and take breaks every one hour or so.

After it was done, I hooked it up and crossed my fingers, hoping the unit wouldn't explode into millions of mini firecrackers. First music I've fired up, there was more detail and lower bass was much more improved as in you can hear some notes you couldn't before with the un-soldered Zero. Soundstage might've improved. As of right now, I don't hear much differences between the un-soldered and the soldered Zero and am waiting for the burn in time to come.

If the next 24 hours brings me double the joy, then this will surely be a killer bang for the buck unit.

Yes, it's really not hard, my problem was with the solder sucker......
It was not taking all solder out properly.... so I had to heat the solder points and pull all parts out..... to place de new ones was the same problem... heat and push one "leg" at a time.....
This was painful... in total I must have spend 10 hours doing it....

Originally Posted by DaMnEd

It would be interesting to see RMAA results for the Frankie and comparing them to the a "usual" ZERO, RMAA figures are not a be all and end all result as to SQ, but it can point out possible problems, I have never seen RMAA for any Zero let alone the Frankie!

Anyone with a Frankie/zero and a proper soundcard for RMAA?

The problem is: Why someone with enough money to buy a Lynx would buy a Zero ? Maybe some magazine would do it if only they knew zero..... I think it isn't still much popular....

[dacavalcante]

Originally Posted by sennsay

Actually, dacava, that's a couple of great tips you have there! I hadn't thought of doing the amp first, because that was the least important part of the upgrade for me. The fact that the amp has improved remarkably has been a huge bonus and especially with the Denon cans. The Senns are still happiest with KHA in Mk I.5 mode.
I've always been in complete agreement that Pench and PP have done great service to the audio community that we love here!

S-Man

Hey S-Man, call me DaC LoL =]]]]]]

I hope to get an mk3 sometime...... maybe next year... dunno...

[DaMnEd]

Originally Posted by dacavalcante

The problem is: Why someone with enough money to buy a Lynx would buy a Zero ? Maybe some magazine would do it if only they knew zero..... I think it isn't still much popular....

You don't need a Lynx to do RMAA, a simple Asus Xonar could to it, or a ESI Juli@, as long as the platform does not change for both tests that much the figures can be compared.

[sennsay]

Originally Posted by dacavalcante

Hey S-Man, call me DaC LoL =]]]]]]

I hope to get an mk3 sometime...... maybe next year... dunno...

HAH! DaC it is!

Can feel for you with the solder sucker ... um .. sucking ... in a bad bad way.
Fortunately mine was good for that first major suck, then I found using the narrow - 1.5mm - solder wick worth it's weight in gold. More often than not, it just slurped the remaining solder right outa there!
My only problem was the crack in the power supply track and fortunately I knew where to look for it by the LEDS not lighting up in the appropriate places.
Frankie sure is singing this morning, she's going through a slightly warm stage today, but the sound is huge with it! Wicked and effortless dynamic swings and the soundstage is expanding out more now, not that it was small before! Just realised how 'analogue' it sounds today, in the best possible sense. I think this might be an 'aha' moment.

S-Man

[sennsay]

Originally Posted by dacavalcante

Yes, it's really not hard, my problem was with the solder sucker......
It was not taking all solder out properly.... so I had to heat the solder points and pull all parts out..... to place de new ones was the same problem... heat and push one "leg" at a time.....
This was painful... in total I must have spend 10 hours doing it....



The problem is: Why someone with enough money to buy a Lynx would buy a Zero ? Maybe some magazine would do it if only they knew zero..... I think it isn't still much popular....

Well, they might if they heard Frankie!
S-Man

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by DaMnEd

It would be interesting to see RMAA results for the Frankie and comparing them to the a "usual" ZERO, RMAA figures are not a be all and end all result as to SQ, but it can point out possible problems, I have never seen RMAA for any Zero let alone the Frankie!

Anyone with a Frankie/zero and a proper soundcard for RMAA?

I have an Auzen Prelude being used as transport to my Frank and it's the original prototype although the H/Amp section is considerably improved over even the base Frankie...I could measure the DAC section if I have the right stuff to do it....any help you can lend to that end ? I really don't hold much stock in these measurements personally...but I'd be curious to see if Frank has improved freq response and a much improved SNR....which I believe is the case born out of listening tests for months on end.

Peete.

[Pricklely Peete]

Thanks for the kind words DaC and DK....I hope you have many years of enjoyment from your Frankie's

I'm really happy you guys had some fun doing these mods even if some of it was difficult....that experience will allow you to tackle other projects in the future (of your own making perhaps).

It's all good !!!

Best Regards,

Peete.

[DaMnEd]

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete

I have an Auzen Prelude being used as transport to my Frank and it's the original prototype although the H/Amp section is considerably improved over even the base Frankie...I could measure the DAC section if I have the right stuff to do it....any help you can lend to that end ? I really don't hold much stock in these measurements personally...but I'd be curious to see if Frank has improved freq response and a much improved SNR....which I believe is the case born out of listening tests for months on end.

Peete.

Sure Peete,

Im no expert at this but I can try to help with the little I understand about RMAA.

First you install RMAA (duh) freeware version
Then you test your Auzen for base comparison, you have instructions on how to test a X-FI here: SoundBlaster X-Fi Series Testing Methodology
For this X-FI test all you need is a mini-mini cable to do a loopback, line-in to line-out.
Do the "Sound card output (playback) test" 16/44 should be what most want to see, since it is what most of us use.

Then to test the ZERO you have to introduce it to the chain, so your digital out from the Auzen connects to the ZERO (coax or optical), and the ZERO analog out (RCAs line level on the back) connects to the line-in of the Auzen, for recording/analyses.

In this case you need a RCA(x2) to mini cable.

The test will be the "Real-time external audio equipment test"

I'm not sure if the ZERO output level is too low for the RMAA to work, if it is an amp would have to be introduced in the chain, lets hope not.

I am using my motherboard as a transport and my Zero is a WIP atm since I am changing the busted IEC inlet that came with it this week, it caused my ZERO to be disconnected/connect at will or with any little tiny movement, so I cant do this, but I will soon have a X-FI here for transport (I want EAX for gaming) and I will do the same to my not quite as modified ZERO.

If anyone out their wants to add or correct something I said, please do, as I said, I Am a n00b at RMAA testing.

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by DaMnEd

Sure Peete,

Im no expert at this but I can try to help with the little I understand about RMAA.

First you install RMAA (duh) freeware version
Then you test your Auzen for base comparison, you have instructions on how to test a X-FI here: SoundBlaster X-Fi Series Testing Methodology
For this X-FI test all you need is a mini-mini cable to do a loopback, line-in to line-out.
Do the "Sound card output (playback) test" 16/44 should be what most want to see, since it is what most of us use.

Then to test the ZERO you have to introduce it to the chain, so your digital out from the Auzen connects to the ZERO (coax or optical), and the ZERO analog out (RCAs line level on the back) connects to the line-in of the Auzen, for recording/analyses.

In this case you need a RCA(x2) to mini cable.

The test will be the "Real-time external audio equipment test"

I'm not sure if the ZERO output level is too low for the RMAA to work, if it is an amp would have to be introduced in the chain, lets hope not.

I am using my motherboard as a transport and my Zero is a WIP atm since I am changing the busted IEC inlet that came with it this week, it caused my ZERO to be disconnected/connect at will or with any little tiny movement, so I cant do this, but I will soon have a X-FI here for transport (I want EAX for gaming) and I will do the same to my not quite as modified ZERO.

If anyone out their wants to add or correct something I said, please do, as I said, I Am a n00b at RMAA testing.

Thanks D,

I think I have the right cables to do just that. The Auzen has an RMAA mode in Audio Creation panel...I did some preliminary test runs using RMAA Pro 6.2.1 and the results are astoundingly good for the SC in 16/44.1 and 24/96.

Basically flat freq response and vanishingly low SNR, with outstanding dynamic response and virtually perfect channel separation.

Obviously I need to get the Frankie in that loop.

I will give it a try this week.......stay tuned.

Peete.

[Doorknob]

30 hours into it and I'm hearing remarkable changes.

Bass has improved both in quantity and quality. Before the mod, I was seriously worried about the amount of bass Zero was giving. Could even barely hear most of the bass notes in jazz trios. Now it appears to have a proper weight to it and I have no problem being able to listen to drums in incredibly confusing rock/electronic musics.

Detail has also skyrocketed. A-900 cans aren't renowned for their detail but as soon as I put on some of 65daysofstatic electronics, I had no idea I was missing out a lot of detail in music.

Soundstage seems to have gone through some changes. They might have become larger but as of right now I can't make a solid statement. However I can safely say that music actually sounds much more live.

Before the modding of the Zero, I used to lower the 880Hz and boost the low midrange and high midrange on Foobar. There was this large hump in the 880Hz range where it sounds quite unnatural and produced a sort of honky noise. The important midranges, both low and the high part, felt very recessed and lacking. Not to mention bass didn't have the proper snap and weight to it. After modding I started using a flat EQ because all those problems I've had were gone. Now EQing is just a matter of taste, not to try to balance the sound.

After the Franken Zero has fully burned in, I might be in for a small review. This little unit sounds absolutely terrific.

[Penchum]

For you guys who have done your FrankenZeros already:

PP and I both noticed that as the PIO caps mature, the soundstage can change drastically by going from narrow to super wide and back, and the upper highs and lower lows, can come and go as well. Since we had the exact same thing happen with our FrankenZero's, we consider these traits to be normal growing (maturing) pains. They will pass, the closer you get to 250 hours, and maybe a few more hours in some cases.

Thanks for the kind words guys! I can't stop listening to my FrankenZero! Once it is completely matured, testing it in different situations is a great deal of fun, because of its superior SQ. It has turned all my headphone amps into super headphone amps! Its analog output is fantastic for speaker systems too!

All hail the FrankenZero! Just like Frankenstein, he is the sum of all his parts, ready to scare away unwanted audio properties! What a monster! Egor, hand me the last by-pass cap! OMG, It's alive, It's alive! Hide the women and children! Burn the village!

[dacavalcante]

Originally Posted by Penchum

For you guys who have done your FrankenZeros already:

PP and I both noticed that as the PIO caps mature, the soundstage can change drastically by going from narrow to super wide and back, and the upper highs and lower lows, can come and go as well. Since we had the exact same thing happen with our FrankenZero's, we consider these traits to be normal growing (maturing) pains. They will pass, the closer you get to 250 hours, and maybe a few more hours in some cases.

Thanks for the kind words guys! I can't stop listening to my FrankenZero! Once it is completely matured, testing it in different situations is a great deal of fun, because of its superior SQ. It has turned all my headphone amps into super headphone amps! Its analog output is fantastic for speaker systems too!

All hail the FrankenZero! Just like Frankenstein, he is the sum of all his parts, ready to scare away unwanted audio properties! What a monster! Egor, hand me the last by-pass cap! OMG, It's alive, It's alive! Hide the women and children! Burn the village!

LoL! Sometimes you just got an imagination to write.... very funny "Egor, hand me the last by-pass cap!" this was more like what I was thinking in the END "Haaaaaaaaa haha!!! This is the last one!!"

I just can't wait until all those hours have gone.... I guess I'll start to leave it 24/7 turned on playing. =]]

[sennsay]

Originally Posted by Penchum

For you guys who have done your FrankenZeros already:

PP and I both noticed that as the PIO caps mature, the soundstage can change drastically by going from narrow to super wide and back, and the upper highs and lower lows, can come and go as well. Since we had the exact same thing happen with our FrankenZero's, we consider these traits to be normal growing (maturing) pains. They will pass, the closer you get to 250 hours, and maybe a few more hours in some cases.

Thanks for the kind words guys! I can't stop listening to my FrankenZero! Once it is completely matured, testing it in different situations is a great deal of fun, because of its superior SQ. It has turned all my headphone amps into super headphone amps! Its analog output is fantastic for speaker systems too!

All hail the FrankenZero! Just like Frankenstein, he is the sum of all his parts, ready to scare away unwanted audio properties! What a monster! Egor, hand me the last by-pass cap! OMG, It's alive, It's alive! Hide the women and children! Burn the village!

I agree entirely! Almost entirely ..... my new tweeters haven't arrived yet from being rowed across the Pacific ..... waiting .. waiting ... so my main system is quiet at the moment.
As for Frankie plus KHA I.5 ... WOOHOO! I reckon the sound is basically up to new tricks nearly every day at the moment, today it's cooking on gas and rock music is an absolute blast! The midrange has completely lost an edge that was there yesterday (and had me just leaving it alone for the day) and sounds open and superbly alive and tangible, bass and drums are blindingly fast yet the deep bass has gone for a short holiday. At the 137 hour mark, you can't have it all! This is the most excited I've ever been about audio in 35 years, what a hoot! And more to come too, with FranKHA I.5 cooking as well and KHA II in partial stages of construction. And then there's going to be both a Franked Plinius IIc pre-amp and a Franked Trevor Lees tube pre-amp, FrankenWorks southern hemisphere branch will be busy for a while to come!
Maybe the new company motto could be, "Hours to build her, months before you get to hear her properly."

S-Man

[sennsay]

Ah me, later in this evening I have an all singing and all dancing Frankie and co that is just knocking my socks off! Mates, Frankie hasn't just picked up a bit, she's gone ballistic! I've been listening to almost an hour and a half so far of the fabulous Genesis Seconds Out live concert at a volume I would normally never consider, something between 10:30 and 11 o'clock on the dial, which is DAMN loud with the 650's and KHA I.5! The sound, the drive, the machine gun drums, crashing cymbals, no matter how loud it gets there is no edge, not on the loudest vocals or the wildest cymbals, it's just wildly awesome!!!! Everything stays in it's position in the loudest climaxes - and the end of Suppers Ready is a wild climax! - stays clean and just ROCKS! The wickedly complex rhythms of the finale in Supper's Ready are crystal clear, the bass is just fabulous, weight, speed and depth. And HUGE! God Almighty, I have never heard this great show anything like this, massive dynamics, with detail! OOOOWWWWWWWWW!

The S-Man cometh!

P.S. Just have to add a bit more, cos I've got Robbie Williams playing now with various guests on Swing When You're Winning. Wow has this album got .... well .... BIG! Wide, punchy, deep in height as well, the piano is so solid and weighty in the bass it seems to completely transcend the limits of the electronics and the cans and just sinks to the lowest notes with ease, like the real thing. Big horns sections? Ah, no worries mate, how loud do ya want 'em? No edge either. Treble is so superb there seems to be nothing to say about it, it's just there, clean, crisp, metallic, natural. And, it's at the back of the stage with the drum kit, which is noticeably well behind the singers, except for the occasions when it's highlighted for effect. Drums have a weight that really moves air, the tympani is stunning! So is the bass, tight and just so tuneful! BIG voices. Effortless dynamic swings with the big band, utterly engaging rhythmic swing and seriously SERIOUSLY IMPRESSIVE!! The duets are stunningly alive and you simply have to sing along, loudly! God knows what the neighbours think.
Must be quite a sight if they looked in through the windows, there's singing (well ... my version of it), conducting, air guitar, air drums .....
Sigh ... Welcome home, Frankie!