Singlepower Extreme vs. Zana Deux

[leftnose]

Hello all,

I am thinking of making a jump into a higher-end tube amp. I am in discussions with Mikhail right now over an Extreme. The setup we have decided on: standard Extreme, 14 amp transformer, external power supply, and Bendix 6080 tubes, would cost about $1900 after shipping. This, obviously, is Zana Deux territory.

I very much like my current EC/SS and I wonder if I wouldn't be better served with the Zana. The difficulty is that my headphone collection is kind of wide: Grado RS-1 and HF-1, Beyer DT990, and Senn HD580.

You're thoughts and inputs are most appreciated.

Thanks,
Richard

[n_maher]

About the only advice that I can give is that when starting out with an amp I would not spend so much on tubes. Those Bendix units usually go for ~$400 a pair (and up). One of the great things about the Extreme is that you can run $20 tubes (6AS7 or 6080 variants) in the output position w/ great results.

[sacd lover]

Originally Posted by leftnose

Hello all,

I am thinking of making a jump into a higher-end tube amp. I am in discussions with Mikhail right now over an Extreme. The setup we have decided on: standard Extreme, 14 amp transformer, external power supply, and Bendix 6080 tubes, would cost about $1900 after shipping. This, obviously, is Zana Deux territory.

I very much like my current EC/SS and I wonder if I wouldn't be better served with the Zana. The difficulty is that my headphone collection is kind of wide: Grado RS-1 and HF-1, Beyer DT990, and Senn HD580.

You're thoughts and inputs are most appreciated.

Thanks,
Richard

Skip the bendix 6080's, you dont need the expense. The standard 6AS7G is around $11 per tube and sounds almost as good. Moreover, you can pick up NOS 5998's and 7236's for much less money. The stock Extreme is great without any options. I use the Senn 580/600, a woodied Grado MS1, Alessandro MS2i and they have never sounded better .... and even though I dont like the 701 or DT880 as well as my other headphones .... the Extreme drove those two headphones the best of any amp I tried.

My first Extreme has a 14 amp transformer as the only option. I like this Extreme as well as I like the Zana .... and I do like the Zana. If you want value go with the standard plus a 14 amp transformer. You get a similar level of performance to the ZD, twice the power and more tube rolling options with tubes that are mostly inexpensive.

That said, I have a second Extreme that I decided to upgrade with the outboard tube rectified power supply. What do I want to gain? Well, you have to hear a tube rectified power supply that really lets through the different signatures of the tubes to understand fully .... but there is an ease and refinement you just dont hear with SS rectification. Furthermore, this power supply will give you a large number of tube choices from the the well known 5AR4/ 5U4G/ 5V4G etc.... to the exotic gas rectifiers. Compared to the one choice of damper diodes in the last Zana revision you get many more choices to fine tune the sound. Being a tube lover who likes to experiment, I couldnt resist.

One more point, I have been bugging Mikhail to do 6c33 adapters to use in conjuction with the outboard power supply Extreme for months now. I know he finally did find time to do a prototype pair. Hopefully, this will become a product reality soon. I always like to try new tube types in the SP amps.

Interestingly, I have been perplexed by this EXACT choice myself. I have every or have owned every tube amp of note but the ZD. I almost bought one the last ZD preorder. I love the look of the 6c33 and I know the sound is excellent. I may stll buy one someday. But, I held off because $2k for something with minimal tube options that I dont like any better than my $1k Extreme seemed at the time .... money better spent elsewhere. Because I already had the Extreme, and the outboard power supply was both unique and less expensive, I went that direction. Moreover, if the new power supply elevates the Extremes sound quality by any appreciable amount .... look out.

[leftnose]

Thanks for the quick responses. Your replies more or less confirm my thinking; I was going to drop the Bendix tubes.

sacd lover, you're point about the availability of 6c33 tubes for the ZD pretty much has pushed me to the Extreme.

Thanks again!
Richard

[Aura]

Seems you've already been pushed to the Extreme, but I just wanted to reaffirm that decision by saying that I preferred both RS1 and SR225 on the SinglePower. Just a terrific amp no matter how you slice it.

[n_maher]

Earl,

I'd be really curious to see what Mikhail cooked up for a tube-rectified PS for the Extreme. Any details?

[jp11801]

Not to overly confuse the issue but I thought the mpx3 sounded better than most of the extremes I have heard. If I were choosing today I'd go mpx3 with some options over the extreme. If you go full blown extreme ask if they recall what they did for Boomana's extreme as it is the best I have heard. I would also confirm the 6080s did not sound all that great and I preferred the other tube options over it.

The Zana is fairly different in that it sounds more linear with less tube lushness. While this is the sound that I prefer you really should hear both sounds before plunking down your cash. If you can not audition both and have to take a shot in the dark you would not be sonically disappointed with either one.

[leftnose]

Hi guys,

Again thanks for the great responses.

Unfortunately (for Singlepower, that is), I got a call from one of my favorite gun dealers this morning. He got a gun in over the weekend that I have been wanting for years. This has effectively dried up my discretionary spending account for a long time!

I'll be revisiting this sometime very late this year!

Richard

[Skylab]

Just for the benefit of other people who may read this thread, I want to add 2 things:

1. I have heard the Zana several times, and while I find it truly excellent, I think the SP Extreme is every bit as good, and maybe even a tiny bit better.

2. TOTALLY agree on the tubes. You can get NOS Tung-Sol 5998's for $50 a pair, and these sound so good it makes spending the money on the more clinical-sounding Bendix 6080's really a waste of money, IMO.

[sacd lover]

Originally Posted by n_maher

Earl,

I'd be really curious to see what Mikhail cooked up for a tube-rectified PS for the Extreme. Any details?

I am hearing two rectifiers, three 0A3 and a relay tube for a 45 second soft start. Because there are so many possible rectifiers I dont know which one I will use; although I already have quite a supply of 5u4g and 5v4g. The initial power supplies will be built P2P. However, the power supply circuit will be adapted to a board sometime in the future.

[n_maher]

Originally Posted by sacd lover

I am hearing two rectifiers <snip>

Wow, sounds pretty cool.

[nurxhunter]

Just a note. The Bendix 6080 IMHO are outstanding. The lover of SACDs sez it best as always--cheaper 6AS7G sound "ALMOST as good" as Bendix 6080. To some, the 'almost' may be worth almost a fortune, to others, not. Telefunken 12AX7/12AU7 sound clinical to many--the best to others--even 'warm' (which to me is amazing that anyone would call them 'warm'). It all depends. Telefunken ECC803S go for $1,000 a pair, yet most on AA think they are ordinary. One thing is for sure--they are anything but 'ordinary'; try finding a NOS pair.

If you listen to 'warm' tube set for a while and switch to 'linear' sounding tubes, they may sound 'cold' at first, then you get used to that and love it. Switch back, and the 'warm' may sound 'muddy'. After a while, 'warm' again. This is one virtue of tube amps. Great distraction.er, hobby. If a Bendix 6080 sound cold with a Tung-Sol 6sn7GT-RP, pop in an RCA VT-231, or NU 6SN7GT or even 6GU7 (with adapter) as the input tube and the whole equation changes--for some, not all.

I have three (3) different versions of Bendix 6080 that differ SIGNIFICANTLY in construction; yet, I see almost no mention of this when many opine. This is like tasting a Cabernet from one year and assuming all years, even only one year apart, taste the same. Well, not really, but point is somewhat valid.

Philips (Minwatt/Amperex/Valvo/Dario...etc) tubes change remarkably from '58-'59 long plate to '59-and-on short plate. The Blackburn xF1 EL34 of 1961 is a TOTALLY different sounding animal than xF2 of 1962. The shiny plate Siemens E88CC (A2) of 1966 is quite different than A-phi-1 (last made in '65). these are come examples of what a difference minor construction changes and only one year can have on sound. It's alchemy--this tube stuff--NO ONE understands it, or can predict taste in another.

Finally, unless tubes are tested, and the data clear, it becomes even more difficult to split hairs; apart from construction, and apart from year, and apart from circuit, and apart from taste--and even apart from bias (as in opinion, not current). I have a theory that genetics--or culture--may have an impact as well on auditory preferences (am I a genius, or what?). As for electronic bias--even here--there is opinionated bias (e.g., mA or mMho, higher or lower plate voltage , hot or cool bias, SE or PP, Triode or Pentode; and finally, tube or SS).

How much is 'almost'.
What does 'worth it' mean?
To whom?
Vs. what?

I took Family out on Fourth (2 days ago) to a nicer chain joint. I paid more than I paid for a pair of Bendix 6080 tubes. Was it (the meal) 'worth it'? Let's just say I was happy I got home in time, I almost didn't make it. Relative to that--the Bendix 6080 are a steal.

[xenithon]

Just thought it worth mentioned that the last post was ~14 month ago. A lot has changed since then, including the whole SinglePower fiasco. Just my 0.02c worth

[nurxhunter]

I rarely post; did not notice date. Was looking for Extreme reviews. I had some time to kill, so I waxed prolific on tubes, not brands or amps.

What fiasco?

[Skylab]

SinglePower has run into some significant problems - there are many threads on this.

At this point in time, I think it would have to be basically assumed that SinglePower amps are not available to purchase new.

w/r/t the Bendix 6080, it wasn't exactly my cup of tea, but then have been coming down in price - I got a NOS pair for $80. This is certainly affordable.