Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp

[Gaco]

Originally Posted by Penchum

Hi Gaco!
Lets see, well, the Zero does have a nice built-in headphone amp. With stock Opamps in the Zero and after break-in, the sound is pretty ok coming out to the headphones. But, it is easy to upgrade the Opamps to something better, and that is what you have been trying to read. No problem. It won't take long to "understand" what is going on. The Zero can function as a DAC, and at the press of a button, switch to headphones. It can't do both at the same time, which, when you think about it, is ok. You can't really listen to both at the same time anyway. Your X-Fi will work great as a source, and we generally recommend lossless files, or MP3's at 320kbps.

I'm pretty sure Lawrence will (for a price) upgrade the DAC Opamp at your request. I don't know if he offers any upgrade Opamps for the headphone board or not, but you should ask him via email.

Using the Zero as a first amp does have it's advantages. Later on, you could buy a tube headphone amp and feed it with the Zero's DAC! If it was a tube amp, then you could listen to "tube" sound or solid state sound directly from the Zero's headphone amp. This gives you options, which is always nice!
Let us know how things are going!!

Aaah ok. At first I thought it could be both at the same time which would truly make it versitile when taking it and my headphones outside my home. Doesn't the Headamp Pico actually act as both simultaniously? Do you know how the two compare in DAC/Amp quality? I started out just looking for an amp but actually if I can get a really good sounding amp + build-in DAC and several input/output to a fair price that would be nice, but you can have it all I guess
I have also considered the iBasso D1 because of it's extremely many input/output options but having read some user reaction my impression is that the audio quality doesn't quite hold up to Pico or Zero for that matter. Oh well..

[Henmyr]

Originally Posted by Gaco

Aaah ok. At first I thought it could be both at the same time which would truly make it versitile when taking it and my headphones outside my home. Doesn't the Headamp Pico actually act as both simultaniously? Do you know how the two compare in DAC/Amp quality? I started out just looking for an amp but actually if I can get a really good sounding amp + build-in DAC and several input/output to a fair price that would be nice, but you can have it all I guess
I have also considered the iBasso D1 because of it's extremely many input/output options but having read some user reaction my impression is that the audio quality doesn't quite hold up to Pico or Zero for that matter. Oh well..

I think you missunderstood. You can use it like this: computer/cdplayer -> optical/coaxial -> Zero dac/amp -> headphones. This way, it will be used as both your dac and your amp.

[Gaco]

Originally Posted by Henmyr

I think you missunderstood. You can use it like this: computer/cdplayer -> optical/coaxial -> Zero dac/amp -> headphones. This way, it will be used as both your dac and your amp.

Then I simply don't know how to understand this following statement

Originally Posted by Penchum

The Zero can function as a DAC, and at the press of a button, switch to headphones. It can't do both at the same time, which, when you think about it, is ok.

[Penchum]

Originally Posted by Gaco

Aaah ok. At first I thought it could be both at the same time which would truly make it versitile when taking it and my headphones outside my home. Doesn't the Headamp Pico actually act as both simultaniously? Do you know how the two compare in DAC/Amp quality? I started out just looking for an amp but actually if I can get a really good sounding amp + build-in DAC and several input/output to a fair price that would be nice, but you can have it all I guess
I have also considered the iBasso D1 because of it's extremely many input/output options but having read some user reaction my impression is that the audio quality doesn't quite hold up to Pico or Zero for that matter. Oh well..

That's ok. I guess it depends on whether you want portable or not. Also, the Pico Amp/Dac USB isn't out yet, so you'd be on a waiting list. The iBasso D1 was popular, but I think portable DACs/Amp were somewhat of a fad for a while. Many killed theirs by trying to solder in different capacitors!
We are very certain that the Zero outperforms the portables, and costs way less as well. The Opamp rolling is just icing on the cake for later.

[biph911]

Originally Posted by Gaco

Then I simply don't know how to understand this following statement

He means that it can't function as a standalone DAC for a separate pre-amp/headphone amp while it is driving headphones on its own internal amplifier.

[Gaco]

Oh I understand then. biph911 is correct right Penchum? Makes sense to me now

I would be very grateful if you could name some of the components (opamps that is?) that would be an improvement to the standard Zero so I could ask Lawrence if he could make me such a custom device. I won't be buying another amp for a pretty long time so I might as well pay a some extra for it getting just right from the beginning and as I said I'm not really keen on modding my Zero once it arrives

[Gaco]

No proposals for opamp upgrades? Haha you've all been basically blabbering on about good opamp combo to upgrade the zero with for approximately 120 pages or something and now you can't name a few for me? wtf

[Penchum]

Originally Posted by Gaco

No proposals for opamp upgrades? Haha you've all been basically blabbering on about good opamp combo to upgrade the zero with for approximately 120 pages or something and now you can't name a few for me? wtf

I don't know about the others, I missed it totally! Lawrence has a sheet he can email to you, of Opamps he sells. It has descriptions of them too. We've been looking at Linear Techs stuff for a while, and Lawrence doesn't sell any of those (I don't think), but he does have some nice ones like the OPA627s.
Just drop him an email and ask him what Opamps can be upgraded if you purchase the Zero. He'll send you all the info.

[edguetzow]

Originally Posted by Gaco

No proposals for opamp upgrades? Haha you've all been basically blabbering on about good opamp combo to upgrade the zero with for approximately 120 pages or something and now you can't name a few for me? wtf

Well, for starters, you could look at the Original post (#1) of Penchum's as it has been updated to list all the opamp combos that he has tried.

[jamato8]

Gee Gaco, people sometimes take a little time to respond and this is Sunday, well in the US and gee do you have to say "what the f!@%" and refer to the dialog as blabbering?

[biph911]

Originally Posted by Penchum

I don't know about the others, I missed it totally! Lawrence has a sheet he can email to you, of Opamps he sells. It has descriptions of them too. We've been looking at Linear Techs stuff for a while, and Lawrence doesn't sell any of those (I don't think), but he does have some nice ones like the OPA627s.
Just drop him an email and ask him what Opamps can be upgraded if you purchase the Zero. He'll send you all the info.

Here is what he e-mailed me when I asked him:

I am highly recommended OPA627.
See below:

The op-amps used are generally of poor quality, corrupting the analogue signal, having a disastrous effect on the sonic capabilities of the CD player. The effects are a smearing of detail, reduced dynamics, congestion of instruments on complex music passages causing a mass of sound, rather than a spacious, airy, sound stage. The quality of the mid-high frequencies is particularly poor, where the mid-band is brittle and aggressive, and higher frequencies are edgy, cold and fatiguing to listen to.

The following op-amps produce the poorest results; NE5534, NJM2114, NE5532, NJM4558, NJM4560, AD711, AD712, LM833.

The performance of op-amps from different manufacturers varies considerably. Therefore, selecting a single type of op-amp to meet the parameters required for the analogue output stage involved analysing data sheets and conducting many listening tests.

The important parameters for sound quality are high speed (or bandwidth) low THD, fast settling, and low input noise. The most natural and musical sounding were FET-Input types as opposed to bipolar.

Burr Brown OPA 627 BP(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor
Price: US$28 each (Total US$56 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $61
Comment: Two words sum this chip up........ "absolute class" This is single chip and it was necessary to fit two single channel 627's onto a single to dual Browndog adaptor which Adapts two single-channel DIP-8 op-amps to a dual DIP-8 pinout. These 2 single channel op amps absolutely trounced anything that had gone before them ..... the width of the soundstage, the clarity and the sheer presence make this my choice of op amp for use in the Chiarra without a shadow of a doubt. The sound is just so "clean", so "natural", so "musical" and so "detailed" with the 627's on board. The Burr Brown 627 "is" headphone heaven....... absolute class act.


LM4562(dual, ceramic)
Price: US$30.
Comment : A "Very" revealing chip, sound similar to the OPA627 but puncher around the edges. I found this chip gave out "way" too much information for my liking. It is analytical to the point that certain pieces of music can become impossible to listen to, especially bad recordings, it reproduces every last detail / imperfection with microscopic accuracy which, at times, can be detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the music. For those that love a warts and all insight into the music then this is the star of the show but it may not be to everyone liking. It may be an op amp which can beat OPA627.

Burr Brown OPA2604 (dual, ceramic)
Price: US$10.
Comment: OPA2604 sounded very warm, very laid back and very easy to listen to but slightly veiled in the detail department. "Chocolaty" and "syrupy" though a good easy to listen to Op amp., This may just be what the doctor ordered for those who like a laid back, thick, chocolaty, easy going and easy to listen to sound.

Linear techonolgy LT1057(dual, ceramic)
Price: US$20,
Comment: Without a shadow of a doubt this op amp is the star of the the centry. Easy to listen to, easy to pick out every last detail and ever so natural. There was an ethereal quality to the sound that only ever heard on high quality loudspeaker based systems. It's hard to put what this op amp does into words but listening to the sound with it on board is as close to headphone heaven. Very analytical.

Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, ceramic) on Browndog adaptor
Price: US$15 each (Total US$30 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $35
Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1057 but each component of the sound was treated to an additional air of realism and effortless delivery that was immediately evident.

Linear techonolgy LT1028(single, metal) on Browndog adaptor
Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
Comment: It provided very similar results to the LT-1028 but the sound is ten times better LT-1028 with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.


Analog device AD797 (single, ceramic)
Price: US$25 each (Total US$50 for 2 singles) Browndog adaptor $5 Total: $52
Comment : Smooth, highly analytical, warm, uncoloured, laid back yet all detail is present (and then some) Very electrostatic quality to the sound with that super solid state bass underpinning the proceedings without overwhelming them. Start and stops are followed by an inky black silence and the timbre of the drums is very realistic indeed. Something that is very evident with this op amp is it's inherent ability to provide accurate timing which I really do like! There is no bass overhang, the drums start and stop as they should and, as a result, the timing is pretty much spot on. This is like listening to music with a stethoscope with the metronome ticking away in the background but it also adds a touch of valium to make the experience very bearable and extremely enjoyable.

Analog device DY2000 (dual, ceramic)
Price: US$20
Comment : These chips makes the sound more valve like than the tube sound ever did if that can possibly make any sense! Melodious, slightly laid back and warm yet it brings out every last bit of detail from a recording. Overall a very nice sound. A kind of hybrid valve and solid state mix which gives the best of both worlds. Nice smooth valve like mids and highs with lovely solid state bass oomph . This is the Op amp for those who prefer a valve like sound but would also like a solid state bottom end delivery. With this Op amp you can have your cake and eat it. Smooth as silk.

Analog device DY2000 (dual, metal)
Price: US$35.
Comment : It provided very similar results to the DY2000 ceramic but the sound is ten times better with their punch , detail , range of frequency ….. especially the naturality.
Thank you very much !

Best regards,
Lawrence

[Gaco]

Originally Posted by jamato8

Gee Gaco, people sometimes take a little time to respond and this is Sunday, well in the US and gee do you have to say "what the f!@%" and refer to the dialog as blabbering?

I tried to come off as sarcastic in the friendly humorous way but I guess I came off as "impatient litte biatch"-sarcastic instead, sorry

I was technical blabbering to me, if I continue to learn about head-fi as much as I have in the past week I may come back soon and it would all make perfect sense

I'll try and email Lawrence.. still if you have any personal favorites for opamps do let me know =)

BTW Thanks biph911 very helpful. I remember I saw that a while back but I couldn't really keep track of 128 pages hehe.. sorry if I'm coming off as too importunate, it's just my kind of my style I don't mean any offense

[jamato8]

The learning curve is tough at first but then things start to click and then you can enjoy it more. It just takes a while and requires doing some investigation.

[charley phogg]

Originally Posted by Penchum

Not actually. The DAC output is L + R RCA's on the back of the Zero. When you first power up, this is where the signal is going, which would be for an external amp of somekind. If you want to listen to headphones with the Zero, then you plug in on the front of the Zero and press the Pre-amp/Phones button and this diverts the signal to the built-in headphone amp and out to your phones. Does that help any?

Yes, thanks for the explanation. I guess I have always assumed that since it had a DAC on board the amp would use it.... we all know what assuming gets you .

[magnetiq]

quick question, can you use the RCAs to connect to the source and still use it as a headphone amp?