Review: ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Headphone Amp/Pre-Amp

[DaMnEd]

Originally Posted by shadowlord

could please someone explain the "franken-mod" to me so that i don't need to look trough the 855 pages of this thread ?

FrankenZERO - A bang for buck exploration with a DIY Heart !

[Emanuel]

Hi,
I've got some problems with the zero..Ive changed the two 330uf caps on top of the four decoupling caps with 470uf oscon, and also applied the bypass at all these caps. Now my problem is that right channel turn down on volume, not so much, but clearly noticeable. What should have happened? Bad contacts or soldering? (the one on decoupling caps are very bad, but were working before, maybe get worse) Maybe Ive lost some contacts in the upper side of the pcb?
If someone can help, Ill be very grateful!!

Ps: Ive found that the right channel have a different hiss, more loud, and if I touch the second decoupling caps on the left, I heard like an interference, a mass problem maybe.

[helicopter34234]

I am almost certain you are not getting a pure untouched signal and this could explain why your having trouble differentiating between bit rates/file types etc...

How bad is the Xitel, can you really notice a difference between it and a bit perfect transport?
What kind of artifacts would it be adding to the music? I have a Realtek HD Audio Soundcard built into my Gigabyte motherboard with coax and optical outputs which can KS in foobar. That should be bit-perfect if I am kernel streaming right? I verified that windows volume settings do not change the volume. I had switched to using the Xitel (from the Realtek) because every once and a while I would get "garbling" or almost static if I moved to different locations in a track that would slowly work its way out.

I will try to my system out on my dad's expensive dvd player this weekend.

I think I might be able to discern a difference when using the amp, not something that is immediately obvious but may just be more enjoyable to listen to, as if you aren't conciously perceived the difference in quality but you subconciously enjoying it.

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by helicopter34234

How bad is the Xitel, can you really notice a difference between it and a bit perfect transport?
What kind of artifacts would it be adding to the music? I have a Realtek HD Audio Soundcard built into my Gigabyte motherboard with coax and optical outputs which can KS in foobar. That should be bit-perfect if I am kernel streaming right? I verified that windows volume settings do not change the volume. I had switched to using the Xitel (from the Realtek) because every once and a while I would get "garbling" or almost static if I moved to different locations in a track that would slowly work its way out.

I will try to my system out on my dad's expensive dvd player this weekend.

I think I might be able to discern a difference when using the amp, not something that is immediately obvious but may just be more enjoyable to listen to, as if you aren't conciously perceived the difference in quality but you subconciously enjoying it.

I think once you try your Dad's DVD player the difference will be immediately noticeable. Once the signal is subjected to noisy EMI/RFI bombarded environment the level of hash introduced to the base signal (the static pops you noticed while Kernel Streaming is a prime example) really obscures a lot of detail...resolution drops ...you loose info. It's the same as comparing a mp3 to a full resolution wav on a DVD player capable of playing pack both formats...it's noticeable right away or at least it should be. The way XP handles audio isn't the greatest either...one reason why ASIO is so popular. Vista has corrected this shortcoming but that's no reason IMO to switch to that bloated bugware....(OK OK I know at least 5 of you actually like Vista...no offence OK )

You could also try that type of test on your Dad's DVDP if it will play MP3's back...simply compare a full resolution CDA file to a copy of the same track in mp3 format at 128 kb/s data rate.

Until I bought my Auzen Prelude, my mobo's SC digital coax out was not up to the job....that's on a Asus Maximus Formula deluxe (2007 X38 Intel) with the latest so called HD Sound card (a separate one to boot...the SupremeFX II) It's a POS compared to the Auzen in every respect you care to name...that surprised me somewhat. I used the PCI slot furthest away from the SB chip to install the Auzen SC in and added a aluminum shield around it for further protection from the computers noisy environment....the signal I get is noise and hiss free...pure velvety blackness.never a pop tick,static noise of any kind. Although it's relegated to transport duties it does that job well (equal fidelity at the very least to any DVD/CDP I own)...I would imagine a Lynx card may best the Auzen but not by much.

USB is problematic for trying to get the best fidelity from a PC because of the obvious limitations presented by that method. Add in a cheap converter and you are no better off than before with the pops and ticks and hash....all IMHO of course Others mileage may vary.

I still think your not getting what is possible from your combo...try out the DVD player over the weekend...have a great holiday visit with family and friends and report back your findings on Monday or Tuesday next week. If you still don't notice a difference in SQ then I will eat my shorts. Just kidding.....cotton gives me hives !

Have a Merry Christmas BTW

Peete.

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by Emanuel

Hi,
I've got some problems with the zero..Ive changed the two 330uf caps on top of the four decoupling caps with 470uf oscon, and also applied the bypass at all these caps. Now my problem is that right channel turn down on volume, not so much, but clearly noticeable. What should have happened? Bad contacts or soldering? (the one on decoupling caps are very bad, but were working before, maybe get worse) Maybe Ive lost some contacts in the upper side of the pcb?
If someone can help, Ill be very grateful!!

Ps: Ive found that the right channel have a different hiss, more loud, and if I touch the second decoupling caps on the left, I heard like an interference, a mass problem maybe.

Are you sure you have the polarity correct on the caps you installed ? Double check that and the solder points of those on both sides of the pcb.

Peete.

[Pricklely Peete]

Originally Posted by ScottieB

Actually no it's the original one. I tried it first (got the Earth and Sun at same time during the original deal) and liked it a lot. Then moved to the Earth and liked that. And then moon and liked that. I had been meaning to try the Sun again but it meant re-soldering the lead - my old job held but the other contacts came apart - I just re-did them all. Maybe I just like variety and in a few weeks I'll be compelled to switch again but for now I'm really having fun with this.

It's like tube rolling...keeps things interesting.

Peete.

[Archimago]

Wow, been awhile since checking on this thread - great to see it's still strong!

Quick Q's:
1. Before I take out the snippers and cut off the 2 caps around the output RCA jacks to improve the highs (as per Lampizator site) - other than complaints about Grados (which I don't have), anyone else complain about this mod? Definately want to try this if it doesn't accentuate highs abnormally...


2. Is it consensus that HDAM-Earth is superior to dual OPA627's?

Thanks and Merry Christmas all...

[ScottieB]

Originally Posted by Archimago

Wow, been awhile since checking on this thread - great to see it's still strong!

Quick Q's:
1. Before I take out the snippers and cut off the 2 caps around the output RCA jacks to improve the highs (as per Lampizator site) - other than complaints about Grados (which I don't have), anyone else complain about this mod? Definately want to try this if it doesn't accentuate highs abnormally...


2. Is it consensus that HDAM-Earth is superior to dual OPA627's?

Thanks and Merry Christmas all...

1 - Not that I've heard

2 - Seems to be, yeah.

[helicopter34234]

Thanks Pricklely Peete for the thorough response. Unfortunately I won't be seeing my parents again for a couple of weeks. We had an early Christmas there last week (that's how I got the MKII) because I am going to my girlfriends parents for Christmas. Also, I have already sold the MKII so it looks like I won't be able to do the test. I just don't think I have the ears for this sport. I had my non-audiophile friend over tonight so I had him tell me which sounded better while I switched back and forth between amps without him seeing which was plugged in. He said the MKII just sounded clearer than the Zero HP out but it was very subtle. I have tried switching back and forth myself for several hours tonight on many many different songs and still can't really notice any difference. I tried this with the mobo soundcard coax and the Xitel optical. The mobo soundcard sounds fine (not really any popping hissing) unless you try to jump somewhere midsong, otherwise it sounded pretty good. I honestly don't really even hear much of a SQ improvement on going from my soundcard jack to the Zero, and others have definitely attested that they hear a big difference on this jump, even with the cheap Xitel. I guess some people (including myself) just aren't capable of appreciating SQ improvement beyond a certain level. I definitely noticed improvements on upgrading my headphones, but beyond that, not so much.

Sorry I couldn't do the test, I'm sure it would have benefited other members considering buying an amp. If you are considering getting an amp, don't let my experience change your mind, test for yourself.

Besides, if the test did show that I could hear a difference coming out of a good transport, then I would have to buy a good transport another >$150. I think I will just go through with the sale of the amp and maybe some day consider getting one again. Besides the Zero HP amp is no slouch, it sounds pretty darn good as is. Definitely enough for me to enjoy my music, which I will be doing instead of worrying about hearing upgrades. My next purchase might be a better transport though. So basically the problem with the Xitel is that it resamples and that it might have bad jitter (even though I don't really hear anything wrong with it). Would any card that supports ASIO with coax output work, even really cheepo cards? I saw some good deals on refurbished creative audio cards including the emu 0404 for $60. Would the emu be a good transport (even though its usb). Are any of these other cards good?
Creative Labs Refurb Sale - SlickDeals.net Forums

[Currawong]

My take on the HDAMs was that the main difference appeared to be the soundstage (whether that is a function of a slightly different EQ or not I'm not entirely sure, but is quite possible) with smallest to largest going Sun < Earth < Moon. My reference tune was Jeff Buckley singing live, with him being more up-front with the Sun, and least so with the Moon.

With the HDAMs, give them 350 hours to burn in. The caps and transistors need it.

Another thing, I see a lot of people asking repeatedly about opamps already tested in the very first post of this thread! I can understand though it takes a while to get used to all the different names of them. I started learning about them from this thread, just like many other people are.

Originally Posted by shadowlord

could please someone explain the "franken-mod" to me so that i don't need to look trough the 855 pages of this thread ?

Try here:

FrankenZERO - A bang for buck exploration with a DIY Heart !

[Currawong]

Originally Posted by helicopter34234

Besides, if the test did show that I could hear a difference coming out of a good transport, then I would have to buy a good transport another >$150. I think I will just go through with the sale of the amp and maybe some day consider getting one again. Besides the Zero HP amp is no slouch, it sounds pretty darn good as is. Definitely enough for me to enjoy my music, which I will be doing instead of worrying about hearing upgrades. My next purchase might be a better transport though. So basically the problem with the Xitel is that it resamples and that it might have bad jitter (even though I don't really hear anything wrong with it). Would any card that supports ASIO with coax output work, even really cheepo cards? I saw some good deals on refurbished creative audio cards including the emu 0404 for $60. Would the emu be a good transport (even though its usb). Are any of these other cards good?
Creative Labs Refurb Sale - SlickDeals.net Forums

I thought, and still think, the HP amp is in the Zero is very listen-able, even with a lot of other expensive gear around. 0404s are quite popular here as a transport.

The whole "what sounds better" issue is a funny one. If you put the average joe in front of a hi-fi system, he might get a shock hearing music he knows well so clearly. It's rather like this Stax rig I just got -- it's so clear and detailed, yet that kind of delivery just doesn't suit a lot of music. For the average joe, more bass might sound better, so between a cheap and expensive system, he'd pick the cheap one, because it was more what he is used to. I can say in my case the only reason I changed DACs was because of choral and orchestral music, which simply sounds awesome through expensive gear. Some of the pop music I like in comparison is so awfully recorded that it only gets played through the car radio, where I don't have to be frustrated at how the recording engineers mixed in some poorly recorded instruments or samples. I've always maintained that if I'd bought the Zero before everything else, I'd probably still be happy with the headphones I've had for 15+ years and I wouldn't have bothered with the rest.

[Kurotetsu]

The LT1364 opamps came in (such great timing, a Christmas gift from Linear Tech?). Swapping out the old ones with the new ones was surprisingly very easy. I expected them to be jammed in their pretty good, but they slipped right out using a 2mm flathead.

The first thing I notice under the new ones is an increase in clarity and detail. The sound is less muddy compared to the old ones I think (hopefully its not just placebo). I only just put them less than twenty minutes ago upon writing this email, so I'll have to give them more time to break in. As of right now, I'm pleased with the swap. A definite improvement.

Now, I have one question unrelated to the opamps. As I was messing around on the inside, I noticed that one of the 4 big black blocks in the headamp/preamp section seemed a bit loose. It is the block on the left hand side when the Zero's front is facing you. When I say 'loose' I mean in comparison to the other three. When I tried to very gently wriggle the other three, they barely budged if at all, while the fourth one moved without much effort. Is this a concern?

[ScottieB]

Originally Posted by Currawong

My take on the HDAMs was that the main difference appeared to be the soundstage (whether that is a function of a slightly different EQ or not I'm not entirely sure, but is quite possible) with smallest to largest going Sun < Earth < Moon. My reference tune was Jeff Buckley singing live, with him being more up-front with the Sun, and least so with the Moon.

With the HDAMs, give them 350 hours to burn in. The caps and transistors need it.

This fits perfectly with what I've found as well. I know my HDAMS have been well burned in, too, so the changes should all be "final." I'm thinking I just prefer a smaller soundstage/more forward presentation (which may make sense in the real world too - I like sitting up front at movies and concerts - even orchestral). The whole concept of soundstage is a bit of a mystery to me - I've heard all the explanations and such, but as far as what is more desirable or pleasing, I've yet to draw a conclusion. I try to avoid using it to describe things because a full understanding of it escapes me.

But based on your description of the soundstages of the 3 hdams, it makes sense - and I guess it means I like a smaller soundstage with vocals more "up front". Just as much though, I feel like the Sun gives me more detail from my Sennheisers - more of the attack and reverb of a guitar or bass string that I felt I'd lost when i sold my Grados. I also feel like I can pick out the drums more easily (I'ma drummer at heart) which is a lot of fun for me. I really enjoy this stuff - and to my ear it is what instantly calls out lossless vs mp3 or even hi-res audio vs CD audio.

Again, this is a preference thing, I just wanted to bring up that I am enjoying the Sun, since it seemed to be mostly written off quite some time ago. The consensus here seems to be that most prefer the Earth and Moon, so I just wanted to throw in that coming back to the Sun has been very enjoyable for me - and to nail down why so that new peeps can make the best decisions for themselves.

[ads2]

Hello,
it seems that I have seen (but I don't remember where..) that when modding the zero it's better to remove 2 caps to avoids too much treble.
Can, someone confirm me this ?

[ads2]

well, I have finally found the page that tal about the capacitors here Introduction to the Zero DAC and Headphone amplifier. - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
So should I or not remove these caps ? any advice are welcolme.
thanks