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Headphoneus Supremus aka JP-nums or JP-numbers Lead Organizer for Can Jam '09
Originally Posted by grawk
The best choice for amping the minidac is xlr-> rca cables, wire pins 1 to negative and 2 to positive, leave pin 3 unconnected. Or get a balanced amp
would it be a poor choice to get either cardas or other xlr>rca adaptors? THe cable solution is probably better just a thought for the impatient who also lack soldering skills.
Headphoneus Supremus aka JP-nums or JP-numbers Lead Organizer for Can Jam '09
Originally Posted by Computerstud
^^^ JP...I happen to think the Apogee's AMP is pretty decent but that's a different story.
The unique thing about the Apogee is that it’s a DAC well capable of driving HPs directly from its 1/8 and XLR line out (low impedence, high voltage) bypassing amping. I'm sure you have read or perhaps tried bypassing amping w/ the Apogee. What I noticed immediately (not subtle) is the level of clarity it offers by direct connect. I don't believe that any AMP regardless of price connected to the Apogee can offer the same signal accuracy because in actuality an AMP (along with interconnect, etc...) is lengthening the signal chain.
the amp is ok and seems to drive grados ok but to my ears the can amp/eddie current ecss were better in the 333-400 category, but we all hear different. I will say that for grados for example the apogee sounded better than the yamamoto that was next to it at Headfest. The apogee better in the bass with ps2s where the yammy was loose and ill defined in the bass. But as as soon as I connected the apogee to a better amp I realized it has it's limits. To each his own and if you or anyone is happy with the apogee pre amp outs straight up hey you just saved a few hundred bucks. I guess we all hear different. The apogee to me is a steal at it's price and I enjoyed mine above the others in this price range like the benchmark or grace.
^^^ JP...I happen to think the Apogee's AMP is pretty decent but that's a different story.
The unique thing about the Apogee is that it’s a DAC well capable of driving HPs directly from its 1/8 and XLR line out (low impedence, high voltage) bypassing amping. I'm sure you have read or perhaps tried bypassing amping w/ the Apogee. What I noticed immediately (not subtle) is the level of clarity it offers by direct connect. I don't believe that any AMP regardless of price connected to the Apogee can offer the same signal accuracy because in actuality an AMP (along with interconnect, etc...) is lengthening the signal chain.
I can say for certain that the apogee alone is bested by the apogee->my balanced amp. The apogee simply can't keep up with the demands being placed on it when you're driving headphones, when compared to a good amp. Otherwise, people would just hook up speakers to their sources, without an amplifier.
__________________
mac mini -> apogee duet -> tooleaudio balanced mosfet amp -> luxman lv-113 -> home theater direct level 3 bookshelf speakers
mac mini -> apogee duet -> tooleaudio balanced mosfet amp -> grado/headphile zebra hf1s
tooleaudio denon dvd2900 -> tooleaudio balanced mosfet amp -> grado/headphile zebra hf1s
1st gen ipod shuffle 1gb -> Altec Lansing iM616
"And so that's how a silly joke turned into one of the seminal rock songs of all time"
<snip> Otherwise, people would just hook up speakers to their sources, without an amplifier.
Grawk, this is the part where we disagree.
First adding speakers to headphones discussion render the argument less cohesive. The power requirements of speakers are measure in terms of watts (speaker system can reach well above 1000W) while those of headphones are in mW (that’s 1/1000W). It’s true that speakers require massive amount of power to drive them properly but in regards to headphones, 1watt (added to a k701) would destroy the inner hair cells leading to complete sensineuro hearing lost.
Originally Posted by grawk
The apogee simply can't keep up with the demands being placed on it when you're driving headphones, when compared to a good amp.
I don’t know what you consider is a good AMP and what kind of demands you are referring to when driving headphones. However, a simple search and voila…here’s a snippet of a few comments from literally hundreds referring to Apogee’s pre-amp driving their headphones with great results.
Originally Posted by tiberian
<snip> btw if you are going to use the senns with the apogee ditch the xp7 and plug it directly into the mini plug out...you won't be missing anything at all.
Originally Posted by saint.panda
<snip> I thought the Apogee setup using the HD 650 directly from the XLR line out and balanced Zu/Equinox was clearly superior to the HD 650 connected to the Opera using both the Opera's dac and amp. <snip>
Your comment was the first I have read that states that the Apogee was underpower. I assumed you tried the balance XLR pre-amp of the Apogee and out of curiosity what was it that you thought was underpowered (volume, drive, etc…)?
I do agree that it is silly to own a $1000 source and running it with an inferior AMP but IMO it is sillier to side step or downgrade. The most logical choice is to save up for a balance AMP such as Beta22 or GS-X.
Headphoneus Supremus aka JP-nums or JP-numbers Lead Organizer for Can Jam '09
the apogee's amp section or pre out section is in now way better to my ears than a competent amp that mates well with your headphones.
The apogee is a great dac to get that allows you to use it while you save to get an amp but for example the power supply is pretty limited and the amp section was not the primary design consideration. This is not just true of the apogee it is true of most pro audio amp/dacs out there like the lavry, benchmark... they are great dacs and decent amps IMHO of course.
the comments you raise are great I am in no way a fan of either the xp7 or opera and probably would stick with the apogee. We are probably more on the same page. In that yes The apogee amp section is decent and could rival that of a mid level ehh amp. It will not compete as you move up the food chain.
This is a great review, Iron_Dreamer. I was interested in the Stello HP100 - it looks like I'd probably have to use filter B on my Grados, if I got one. The slight treble roll-off might work in my favor, since a few people have complained about the bright sound of my CD player.
Linear Mode
