Portaphile V2 Owners Thread

[atx]

I happen to love the SR-71, and I keep repeating that it does one thing with the soundstage that no other amp has yet approached. To my ears it has the best left-to-right soundstage image, the performers are very distinctly placed, and it seems to have the most integrated stagefront sound

After some more extensive listening, I understand now what you mean by a seamless gap from left to right on the sr71. You're listening on one axis whereas I'm listening on a different axis. On the horizontal axis, I do detect a gap with the portaphile, and it depends on the materials I use. On some songs, this gap is wider than others. I almost never listen on the horizontal axis, so this seamless gap on the sr71 doesn't matter much to me. Oh well. That's probably why I don't like crossfeeds either.

Try to listen on the vertical axis with the portaphile, as you may find that more enjoyable than the sr71. Am I making sense here? Maybe not.

[Jester]

So now if Dr. Xin get's me my SuperMacro V3 soon, I will be able to start the Portable Amp Shootout - Portaphile vs. SR-71 vs. SM V3 vs. Maxi Moy!

[atx]

So now if Dr. Xin get's me my SuperMacro V3 soon, I will be able to start the Portable Amp Shootout - Portaphile vs. SR-71 vs. SM V3 vs. Maxi Moy!

If SM V3 is as good as the real PPA, I think I will take the plunge and delay buying that DT880 and get the supermacro instead.

[TooNice]

Is the full size PPA a class of its own or can the SR-71 (pretty much the reference for portable amps) compare with it?

[atx]

Is the full size PPA a class of its own or can the SR-71 (pretty much the reference for portable amps) compare with it?

I haven't found any comparisons between the two, but it's supposedly very good. All of Larroco's amps are practically PPAs if not derivatives of one. I'd really like to know how the supermacro v3 compare with a PPA with diamond buffers. I hope someone with a thick enough wallet to have both will write a comparison.

[Romanee]

Originally Posted by atx

I haven't found any comparisons between the two, but it's supposedly very good. All of Larroco's amps are practically PPAs if not derivatives of one. I'd really like to know how the supermacro v3 compare with a PPA with diamond buffers. I hope someone with a thick enough wallet to have both will write a comparison.

Forgetting about the "PPA-style design" discussions, I'm interested to know what the technical differences are between Xin's 3xOpamp L-R-G w/Jung's Multiloop Topology design and Cesar's 3xOpamp L-R-G w/Jung's Multiloop Topology (aside from Xin's placing all the small components on the underside of the board).

Aside from his propensity for perpetual hyperbole (perhaps it's just enthuastic excitement), he seems to have been following close on Cesar's heels as Cesar's triple opamp design has progressed since last year. Obviously Dr. Xin offers a socketed version, which Cesar does not, but I'm not sure sockets are an advantage from a purist audiophile approach (need a good EE to comment ... maybe KG or PinkFloyd?).

What else is going on on the underside of the board (can't read any details from the advance photo -- too low-res).

For those who haven't seen Xin's new board yet, here's the link:

Xin's new compact 3xOpamp board

His new "Eureka" comments on having discovered the previously undetected music with his new design sounds rather like some of the revelations of the Portaphile V2. Dr. Xin seemed previously to have been pursuing the SR-71 as a sonic grail to beat. Perhaps he's now pursuing the scent of the Portaphile's pheromones. I would like to hear the next phase (having missed the recent 2 phases(?) ... but meanwhile, it's a great show.

My eyes are screen-flicker stressed so I'll go relax with some immersive music from the Portaphile V2.

[atx]

Aside from his propensity for perpetual hyperbole (perhaps it's just enthuastic excitement), he seems to have been following close on Cesar's heels as Cesar's triple opamp design has progressed since last year.

I don't want to presume what brought on SM V2 and V3, but it does seem odd that Supermacro V2 and V3 came out very shortly after the Portaphile V2 debuted. In any case, when two great amp builders compete, the public gets an advantage, and I'm glad to see it.

Obviously Dr. Xin offers a socketed version, which Cesar does not, but I'm not sure sockets are an advantage from a purist audiophile approach

I agree here, but from a different point of view. I don't know whether Xin is trying to bring out the technology or good sound from his amp? E.g. the decision of putting 8 batteries in the SM is at a cost of space-- excluding the possibility of using huge capacitors like the portaphile. Obviously he thought having 8 batteries is a better option than putting black gate capacitors, whereas Cesar opted with 9V batteries and forget about battery life as long as the amp sounds good. This is the impression I got.

[bobeau]

Romanee,

In all of your amp evaluations have you heard something in the class of a Dynahi before? I know in some people's eyes this is the ultimate... and of course it's not portable - but, maybe one day technology can make a sound like that possible in a portable form factor. Just wondering how something like this compares to these top portable amps.

I love my new little amp but in all fairness reading impressions from proponents of each is sorta like going to Amazon.com to get music reviews where nearly everything gets 4-5 stars. Many in the SM camp with the current 1.0 said it was perfect, some preferred it to the SR-71, etc. Take goto2003 for example - the 2.0 is much better, then the 3.0 is much better still? How can perfection be improved upon that much?

The most I can take from all this are these are quality sounds, but could be quite far from the end all. My Portaphile sounds nice and lively and makes a significant impact, but do the truly top amps sound like the hand of God is caressing your eardrum? In the end all this does is tell me I need to go to Head-fi meets and find out for myself, like Lan says in his sig.

In the guitar amp world the diminishing returns are extreme once you pay more than $2k or so for an amp. In fact my Dr. Z Maz Jr is the best amp I've ever heard, and I got it used for $1k; and I played many way more expensive - but some of this might have to do with the fact I own it. Some prefer these to $10k+ Trainwrecks, some prefer great examples of production 60s era Fender blackfaces to $30k Dumbles, which is essentially based off the same circuit. I prefer my $3k Huss & Dalton CM hands down to any other acoustic guitar I've ever played, including a $30k '69 Martin D45 and a prewar D18 of nearly the same price (which many believe is a Holy Grail instrument). The price difference does not necessarily denote quality/effort, but rarity and mysticism.

So I wonder is it what you're truly looking for in the sound, is it elitism, or does a $200 really leave much on the table as to improvement - as far as all amps of today are concerned?

[atx]

I love my new little amp but in all fairness reading impressions from proponents of each is sorta like going to Amazon.com to get music reviews where nearly everything gets 4-5 stars.

So I wonder is it what you're truly looking for in the sound, is it elitism, or does a $200 really leave much on the table as to improvement - as far as all amps of today are concerned?

Just my 2cents... 20/20 did a story where they put a bunch of 5 year olds and have them create abstract art paintings. They showed the paintings to art afficionados but told them it was done by professional artists. Most of them said it was great art. When Stossel finally told them it was done by a bunch of 5 year olds, they stuck to their guns and said the paintings are still great.

Headphone amplifiers are like abstract art. It's great sound only to those people who want it to sound great. Objectively though, I think a headphone amplifier improves sound only in very subtle ways, and matters only for those people who pay attention to detail. I.e. a lot of them are fooling themselves.

But if you think you're hearing better sound, even though it isn't, does it really matter? If you buy a $150 cable believing the cable will improve your sound in drastic ways, then to you that $150 is worth it. Of course, the guy with the last laugh is probably the guy who made the cable, not the guy who bought it.

BTW, this canare cable I just bought does seem to sound cleaner and better. Is it my mind telling me its better because I paid nearly $30 for it? Or is it actually better? I don't know.

[lan]

Originally Posted by bobeau

but, maybe one day technology can make a sound like that possible in a portable form factor. Just wondering how something like this compares to these top portable amps.

The thing about portables is that they are optimized for batteries life and size so in a way they cannot compete with larger home headphone amps.

You find many more variations of home amps than you do portable amps because of this I believe as people need to use somewhat similar parts. So to me the sound doesn't change that much in quality but instead characteristic.

[TooNice]

Originally Posted by atx

BTW, this canare cable I just bought does seem to sound cleaner and better. Is it my mind telling me its better because I paid nearly $30 for it? Or is it actually better? I don't know.

Thats where a blind test comes in handy.

Its probably hard to do a blind test with headphones/canal phones etc. as you would probably be able to tell what you are using from other cues weight etc.

But having someone switch one cable for another, or an amp for another (or pretend to do so), should be easier to do.

Actually, ideally, it might be best to do a blind test before you even heard the amp. For all you know, an $150 amp may sound better than a $300 amp for some...

That brings me to another point... Is it possible that by bobeau's last comment. Is it possible that, by the time you reach $200+, that each amp might not be significantly better all round than another, just different (making it very subjective as to what is "better").

For the low end, I would expect every bit that improvement is going to be significant (just like my Porta Pro slaughtered all the cheap earbuds I've used in the past). But I am sure that after a while, it becomes more of a case of personal preference. I am just wondering whether you've reached that stage by the time you hit $200 for amps, or are we nowhere near that yet.

[Romanee]

Originally Posted by bobeau

Romanee,

In all of your amp evaluations have you heard something in the class of a Dynahi before? I know in some people's eyes this is the ultimate... and of course it's not portable - but, maybe one day technology can make a sound like that possible in a portable form factor. Just wondering how something like this compares to these top portable amps.

I currently have available a number of portables -- a few of which are in front of me at the moment -- and although some have subtle differences which a neophyte -- or someone who couldn't care less -- might not hear or not know what to make of it, some have dramatically different sounds. The amps currently in my care are a Super Mini Moy, Porta Corda MkII, Coda amp/Overture DAC (loaner), Portaphile V2 final production version, Portaphile V2 beta "1", Portaphile V2 beta "2", Channel Islands Audio VHP-1, A.N.T. Amber, SR-71 (high gain), Echo Indigo, SuperMacro v1 2x8610(loaner) [a few went back with problems, a few more might come in...]. There are very distinct sonic differences between some of these amps and subtle differences between others. Some have significant euphonic colorations that are seductive in some ways, while they lack a natural balance and other characteristics that some find more desirable. The A.N.T Amber has a warm, rich sound with a lush midrange that fleshes out voices beautifully, and has a huge 3-dimensional soundstage with instruments placed solidly in space, but the top end is lacking and overall it's not what I feel is a realistic or natural sound. Super Mini Moy, is a decent amp in its low-price niche, but has problems that the more expensive portables have eliminated (necessary compromises to maintain low cost). The CIAudio VHP-1 has a laid-back and easy sound that many will find very comfortable, and it has been very well reviewed, yet it's not as dynamic, dimensional or "transparent" to the music as I like -- though most of my listening was while it was burning in (required many hours), and I need to spend more time with it now. Porta Corda MkII creates a very big sound stage, yet I often find its sound sort of "hi-fi" and unnatural, even echo-y. The Portaphile V2 I have is not yet burned in so I can't say what it's mature sound will be, but at this point I find it dynamic, lively, dimensional and focused with tight bass and a top end that's been getting steadily smoother and sweeter. Mids are very nice and voices seem full and well presented. It's quick and detailed without being aggravatingly so. The Coda/Overture is a very nice combo (Overture is a great DAC that improves every amp I've tried with it). The Coda, in some ways, excels over the Portaphile V2 (so far...). It reproduces piano body, timbre and impact beautifully (just listening to Richie Beirach, "Common Heart" - solo piano). Coda has a warmer more "robust" presentation, with bass&midbass more prominent. Weird thing, tho' -- With Alison Krauss+UnStaLive -- Coda puts bass in front with strings and voices behind, while PV2 the reverse, and in general PV2 puts the guitars & all their stringy detail in front with the voices (I prefer). I very much like the SR-71 in its ability to portray very subtle nuances of timbre, fast details, sweet and clear high notes, air, separation of performers and a wide soundstage -- though the Portaphile V2 may have more impact, dimension and energy.

I think that's enough comparisons.

I have not yet heard the Dynahi, as I haven't heard quite a number of amps. I have heard a fair number of large, expensive amps in various price ranges, and many of them sound wonderful in somewhat different ways. There's always one group or another declaring an amp is the latest "ultimate" sound, or the best that we'll ever hear, etc. For me it's just interesting to hear how close an amp can come to recreating the illusion of a live performance. The ultimate in music listening for me is live performances, not the attempted simulation -- but since I can't hear live musical performances at home and work, I try to find what is the most satisfying approximation to my ears (not to someone else's ears).

Unfortunately, there's always the "Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome which many fall prey to, so if a group is proclaiming their favorite amp to the best thing since sliced bread and that its creator has just invented the wheel -- be skeptical. Always listen for yourself, if you're interested at all.

As Lan said, portables can't really compete with the large, high-end home amps. The best home amps generate much more of the sonic body, impact, clarity, texture, dimension, etc. -- that the portables hint at. Even at the top, though, some amps are still skewed for pleasing colorations and some just fall flat. You get what you pay for -- sometimes. I don't think any amp will make you feel as though you've died and gone to heaven, but some of them -- with the best phones -- will definitely put a smile on your face. You'll need a really fat wallet to buy that smile. The Portaphile V2 is enough of a smile for me (for now).

...Uh Oh... Lan will now immediately throw up the red flag of unreality, knowing just enough about me to know that "I was born fussy".

This next thought isn't directly related, except that the brain is remarkable in that despite it's analytical habits (in some of us), it always tries to "fill in the gaps" in many experiences, music listening included. Having been a musician and having know a bunch of musicians, I have my own theory that a lot of musicians don't really care about high-end audio gear or the realistic recreation of live music sound from recordings -- and they often have mid-fi stereo systems which they're perfectly happy with. I think a lot of musicians can hear the cheapest audio system and their brain simply fills in the sound and energy based on their experiences with live music. I've had this experience many times and essentially suspended disbelief (to borrow a theatrical term) and let myself be in the space of the musical performance. The average audiophile would be horrified by the crummy sound -- and I would surely prefer to hear a wonderful sound than a lousy one. Although my iPod 4G is way beyond the old portable radios and players of the past, I can plug my el-cheapo screaming yellow Sony folding phones and disappear into the music. It's like hearing one of the scratchy old recordings of Pablo Casals and tuning out all the noise so that all you hear is Casals' masterful and passionate performance

Perhaps it's possible that when blue sky physics filters down to computing and audio, we'll have realistic audio and all sorts of other functional gadgets in miniscule objects -- but that would be a whole different paradigm and I wouldn't venture a guess as to what out lives will be like.

[atx]

Thats where a blind test comes in handy

Ah!, but if a blind test turns out that the more expensive cable isn't better, then my mind will know it, and I'd no longer enjoy it as much.

Is it possible that, by the time you reach $200+, that each amp might not be significantly better all round than another, just different (making it very subjective as to what is "better").

I think this has already happenned with the Portaphile. While I do enjoy the sr71, I don't think it's significantly better than the portaphile. The sr71 is popular as it is because it's very good at two things: 1) bass 2) clarity, which has the effect of a higher treble. Not everyone can appreciate changes in soundstage, but bass and treble is something that everyone can appreciate and notice immediately.

[TooNice]

Originally Posted by atx

Ah!, but if a blind test turns out that the more expensive cable isn't better, then my mind will know it, and I'd no longer enjoy it as much.

True. But I guess what I am getting at is that it *would* be nice if I could just buy all 3 amps (SR-71, SM, PP2) and have a friend help me with a blind test and keep whichever I liked most.

The problem though (appart from needing nearly $1000 to start off), is that being in the UK that simply isn't an option, so the best I can do is to read what people who've listened to all three, preferably using the same type of music I am into, have got to say.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by TooNice

True. But I guess what I am getting at is that it *would* be nice if I could just buy all 3 amps (SR-71, SM, PP2) and have a friend help me with a blind test and keep whichever I liked most.

The problem though (appart from needing nearly $1000 to start off), is that being in the UK that simply isn't an option, so the best I can do is to read what people who've listened to all three, preferably using the same type of music I am into, have got to say.

I will be doing just that once I receive all of the amps. The Portable Amp Shoot Out will consist of: SR-71, Portaphile V2, SuperMacro V3, and the Maxi Moy SE.