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Go Back   Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio > Equipment Forums > Headphone Amps (full-size)

Headphone Amps (full-size) Discussion of desktop headphone amps.

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Old 09-04-2007, 02:54 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Some people have tried taking it out completely but it doesn't seem to affect the sound in or out. Anyway I think it looks kinda nice but maybe that's because I have bad taste lol.
Without music playing with the GE JAN I only get hiss if I open up the volume way beyong listening levels at 1 or 2 on the dial and then only very softly, have to strain to hear it over background noise. This thing really has absurd amounts of gain as I guess you've noticed.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:44 PM   #102 (permalink)
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I've open the amp up and have a mixture of valves in there.

VE1 is a Chinese 6N3 (probably the OEM item)
VE2 & VE3 are Phillips ECC88 (Holland) so probably later additions.

The Valve in between the two BIG 450v Caps is a Chinese one I think it has 6Z4 written on it . It looks very dusty, old and tatty with a milky hue to the glass envelope.

Basically as i don't have any means of properly testing what i already have i would like to replace them all with new (tested ideally ) items then i can take it from there...

There was also a small peice of Grey coloured cardboard type stuff with hot glue on the back floating around loosely inside, where shoud this be fixed
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:50 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sid and Coke View Post
The Valve in between the two BIG 450v Caps is a Chinese one I think it has 6Z4 written on it . It looks very dusty, old and tatty with a milky hue to the glass envelope.
If the top part of the 6Z4 is whitish in color then it's most likely lost its vacuum and definitely needs to be replaced. Thankfully 6Z4 rectifier tubes are cheap.

Originally Posted by Sid and Coke View Post
There was also a small peice of Grey coloured cardboard type stuff with hot glue on the back floating around loosely inside, where shoud this be fixed
That used to be glued to the PCB side of the power switch as a means of short circuit protection.
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Old 09-07-2007, 04:23 PM   #104 (permalink)
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I have ordered a new 6Z4 to replace my old dusty looking original.

However, having re-read many of the 708B threads and posts it seems to me that the way to get this amp to sound good ( i don't believe the stock unit is reallly any good at all ) , is to replace just about every single component apart from the Case, Transformer, PCB's and main 450v PSU caps.

I had a whole load of components ready to buy via various online sources , but then took a reality check once i'd added up the cost and had another listen to both the Headphone output of my Tascam CD-RW900 CD Player and also to my RedSound micro-amp Head phone amp . Both of which sounded better to my ears than the Stock 708B.

I initially was disappointed with my Red Micro amp , due to lack of drive capability into my Beyer-Dynamic DT-150's I then realised that i was using the headphone output of the CDP for my failry infrequent headphone listening. I used the Line level tape outputs of my World Designs KEL-84 integrated Valve amp and finally the RedSound came alive, basically it just wasn't getting enough signal before. Being such a slimline unit it also slips onto my Hi-Fi rack without using its own shelf.

Great thread, glad to see you guys are having so much positive fun and results from these DIY upgrades, but i've decided that in this case i won't be spending any more time, or money on my 708B. I will concentrate my efforts on inproving my KEL-84 as there are a few good improvements and mods i have lined up for that, and I only built it last month.

Thanks for all your time , effort and great replies, Keep up the good work.

maybe next time...
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:27 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Sid and Coke,

I wouldn't say that it's necessary to go as far as I did in mods. Much of the stuff I did towards the end only provided marginal improvements and you're right about the total cost making in not worth it in the long run. For not much more I could have bought a Ear HD+ kit from Mapletree which is a much better design, but as I said elsewhere this was more of a learning experience to understand how parts affect the sound than trying to build an awesome amp. That's also why I say it's not necessary to go nearly as far as I did. If you're planning on keeping the amp then I'd at least get a better vol pot, but I definitely understand your decision to move on. Mods are all about the maximizing sonic improvement verses the investment so it seems like you'll be much better off in the long run modding your KEL-84 instead. Happy soldering.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:41 AM   #106 (permalink)
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I am planning to sell on my 708B . As mentioned earlier I had a slightly discoloured 6Z4 rectifier tube so have replaced it with a brand new one ( just 4 days to ship HK > UK )

I then noticed that the front 6N1 'display window' tube is actually a 6N11J in my amp, obviously changed by the previous owner.
I have removed it for the time being and the amp works fine.

Would it be OK to put either a 6N11, 6N11J or a ECC88 tube in this display position- which i have going spare.
I don't really want to have to spend money getting a new 6N1, or waiting for it to be shipped , when it doesn't really do anything apart from suck power and look pretty.
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Old 09-10-2007, 09:22 PM   #107 (permalink)
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In the front window you could use either ECC88, 6922, or 6N11. The 6N11J that you have in your window now is one of the old Chinese output tubes that comes stock in the amp.
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Head Amps: Hot Rodded Xiang Sheng 708B
Headphones: Modded HD580+650 cable, Shure E2cs, HD201, HD280 Pro (returned), K240M (sold)
Speaker Amps: Modded T-Amp, AMP6, Rotel RA-972
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:09 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Default My modded 708B

Hi folks,

I'm a bit of a newbie to the headphones & amp world, but I've a bit of a love (or fetish) for valves. Was thinking of getting a Little Dot, but kept seeing bad news about them having design problems. The 708B seemed to get a fair bit of much better news/reviews in this respect. Was also looking for an amp that had valve rectification, which this one has.

Having done a bit of reading around this and other forums, I've purchased a 708B from "on9mart" via ebay for £72 including airmail. It arrived very well packaged in about 4 or 5 working days, got the tracking ID from the seller. In fact, the parcel was so ornately wrapped, it was a shame to rip it open!





Bear with me, I'm going to give a quick run down of the mods I've made...

So, first impressions, are that it's not at all a bad bit of kit. It's well put together, and the inside is neat and tidy. Straight out of the box, I first powered it up using a Variac set to 220VAC (instead of my usual 237VAC), and checked the heather voltages were roughly 6.3V, which they were. So the first mod was definitely going to be sorting those out, as they went around 7.0-7.2V when running on 240.

Anyway, it even then after about 4 hours burnin, it sounded better than the headphone output my Dads old QED amp or another old Technics amp. The major critiscm was an amount of AC hum in the headphones that was not loud but a little distracting in quieter music. BTW, I'm using a pair of Senn 555's,and a Technics CD SL-PG370A CD player.






Mod 1
SAFETY FIRST!
Being a bit electrically minded, I didn't fancy the idea of those really large PSU caps staying charged up. So, I've fitted a 1Mohm bleeder under each, as they're not quite in parallel with each other, owing to them being in a CRC filter network. I originally had 3W 68Kohm, but these were getting warm, and I don't like the idea of slow cooking caps, 'cus it shortens their lifetime. The 1Mohms don't get much above gently warm.

I've also added a wire from the earth pin on the mains IEC socket to the chassis. It's a bit naughty not to have that!









Mod 2
Had to be to get it to run on UK 240VAC, so that's sorting out the heater and HT voltages.

First off, heaters. A bit of trial and error found that I needed about 1/2ohm in series with the rectifier/frontpanel valves. Not having anything suitable to hand, a length of about 20CM stranded equipment wire was giving the correct voltage drop. This is neatly folded up in some heatshrink tubing under the PSU board (which I've raised slightly on it's mounting bolts).

The second heater circuit for the 3 valves on the amp board. I've had to change this again, as since I originally modified it, I've installed a different pre-amp valve, which changed the voltage again. Now it's 0.47 and 0.5 in series, both 5W. I had a 1ohm but that dropped the voltage too much.

So, now on an average day with about 237+/-7VAC on the line, I get about 6.1 to 6.35V on all the heaters.





Mod 3
Folks have already mentioned in the thread about the 2 high wattage resistors on the PSU board getting cooked. I've basically made roughly the same resistances up by paralleling some 3W bits together. In doing this, I've increased the resistances slightly, which helps the AC hum filtering in the CRC network. It's also had the useful effect of dropping the B+ rail back to about 185VDC now I'm running it on higher UK mains voltage.

While the PSU board was out, I replaced the 1N4007 diodes with Vishay SF4007's, as mentioned elsewhere on the forum. Didn't notice anything obvious when these were replaced though.





Mod 4
This isn't critical, but I replaced the phono sockets. The stock ones were ok, but they seems about 0.5mm too thin in diameter. So, these have been replaced with some new gold finished ones. I replaced all 4, even though I don't plan to use the pre-amp out.




Mod 5
Again, not critical, but I replaced the 2off 47u electrolytics on the amp board, only because the top of one looked a bit dented.





Mod 5
This is probably the biggest and most dramatic improvement I've made to date, having read up with folks' experience of tube rolling. I've replaced the Chinese 6N3 with a 1987 NOS GE JAN 5670W. Wow. Immediately the AC hum is almost none existant - the M6 motorway is 1.5miles away, and at 8pm with the window open, that's louder than the hum. This valve has really brought the sound of the amp to life. Also shortened the spring clip to suit the lower height of the 5670W.





Mod 6
Replaced the potentiometer with an ALPS 100KA. I have access to a PCB machine at work which scratches copper from copper clad board. So, I knocked up a simple 2-sided board to interface the ALPS PCB pins to the phono wires.
The ALPS needs a new hole drilling for the locating peg, and the stock knob doesn't fit. I still need to sort a new knob out for it, of course!
Having read other reports of changing this, I was expecting more improvement than I got. The old pot was fairly well balanced, but it did suffer from not much graduation in volume when set at about 0 to 25%. This ALPS is definitely a lot better for this.

At this point, I thought I'd lost the plot. When I first powered up, I got a deafening hum out of my Senn's, which were quickly unplugged. It turns out that somehow the ALPS pot creates an earth loop, where the stock pot didn't. This was fixed by adding qty=10 of 100R 1/2W in parallel, wired between the earth pin on the mains socket and the earth commons on the isolated phono in's.








Mod 7
As I'm not exactly a millionaire, I was going to replace the WIMA 220nF interstage coupling caps with Musicaps. For some reason, I couldn't find any reasonably priced ones in the UK (compared to the US prices). So, I've dropped a pair of SONIQS SAX220nF/630V in. Had these on a component tester at work. These were both bang on 223nF and measure an ESR of about 1/2ohm at 100hz, 1khz and 10hz.
These too have made an improvement, the sound is certainly a little clearer than with the WIMA's.




Mod 8
My CD player seems to have a LOUD output level. So I've put a 560K resistor in series with the phono in socket, which has given a lot more play on the volume control. Maybe I should have dropped a 560KA ALPS pot in there instead or had a go at reducing the amplifier gain.



In Conclusion
The amp was £72, I've spent about another £40 in bits.





That's probably as far as I'm going with the mods. It sounds excellent (to me anyway), it reproduces a wide range of live music recordings exceptionally well. Listening to the BBC CD of "Last night of the proms" is a new experience, compared with the old transistor amps at home. CD's like Norah Jones, and classical recordings and the such like have come to life, I can now hear the musicians shuffling around, not just the music

My advice, go for it, and do a bit of tweaking - especially replacing the 6n3 and sorting the heaters if you're not on 110V or 220V!


Cheers,
Chris.
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Old 10-11-2007, 09:18 PM   #109 (permalink)
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If you can find one try a NOS Sylvania 5670. I had a used one first but found a NOS quite cheap and I think it's even better than the NOS GE JAN 5670W that I tried as well.

I'm very happy with the synergy it has with my HD580 now, really detailed, lush, rich and textured sound.
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Sources: Ipod 5g 30Gb|Computer
Can Amps: Portable: Microshar uAmp 107B|Home: Xiang Sheng 708B-tube rolled
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Speakers: Eltax Monitor III|Pioneer CS780

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Old 10-11-2007, 09:28 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
If you can find one try a NOS Sylvania 5670. I had a used one first but found a NOS quite cheap and I think it's even better than the NOS GE JAN 5670W that I tried as well.

I'm very happy with the synergy it has with my HD580 now, really detailed, lush, rich and textured sound.
Thanks! What about replacing the 6N11's? Is that likely to make much difference?

Cheers,
Chris.
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