Holy Batman! This PINT kicks freakin' butt!!!

[GIGANTOID]

So who is telling the truth? The people who like the Pints or the Hornet?

Or perhaps truth and value are subjective in this regard and thus there is no truth, just opinion.

FWIW it sounds like you've just found Jesus and need to tell everyone what you believe and sometimes that comes across as disrespectful even though you're proclaiming the truth, as you see it, anyhow.

[kdaq]

Volcomjerk, when you say the Hornet is a rip off, we know that you are simply stating your opinion. That's well and good. There are, however, more respectful ways to go about doing it.

"Rip off" has an air of anger, and accusation to it. As to say, that Ray has done wrong to you.

Something like, "Not worth it to me", is a different story. This statement pays note to your own preferences, instead of degrading a design as a whole. Not to mention, calls attention to the the specific sound you experienced, with a particular set of supporting components that you happen to own and like. Every combination of source, amp, and headphones can sound different.

There are many folks at Head-Fi that appreciate the little details that Ray is quite good at paying attention to, both in amp design and customer service. If you wish to call him out, I for one would appreciate better supporting evidence.

Just my $0.02.

[volcomjerk]

Originally Posted by GIGANTOID

So who is telling the truth? The people who like the Pints or the Hornet?

Or perhaps truth and value are subjective in this regard and thus there is no truth, just opinion.

FWIW it sounds like you've just found Jesus and need to tell everyone what you believe and sometimes that comes across as disrespectful even though you're proclaiming the truth, as you see it, anyhow.

I don't mean to come off that way. Even if it is just opinion why are so many people afraid to even say a negative opinion here? I see so many reviews here and most of the time there's no one that flat out says IT SUCKS. You either like it or you don't because really that's what some people are saying without really saying it.

[Gnus]

Originally Posted by GIGANTOID

So who is telling the truth? The people who like the Pints or the Hornet?

Or perhaps truth and value are subjective in this regard and thus there is no truth, just opinion.

FWIW it sounds like you've just found Jesus and need to tell everyone what you believe and sometimes that comes across as disrespectful even though you're proclaiming the truth, as you see it, anyhow.

I was just about to post something similar. It's great that you found the "sound" that we all try to achieve, but to state something such as "this item is a ripoff, the sound sucks, etc." is just disrespecting other people's choice in "sound". To some people, the Hornet for $350 is probably a bargain for them because it gives them the sound they are looking for.

It all really boils down to opinions and as such since we respect your opinion for saying the "PINT kicks ass" you should respect that the Hornet kicks ass for others.

BTW, I do not own the Hornet, I own the SR-71 and I would love to hear the PINT after reading your thoughts.

[saint.panda]

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

(...) rip off compared to the PINT

This statement doesn't make sense to me at all. If I bought a Hornet for $350 and sold it to somebody for $400, that I think would really be a rip off. There's a difference between "personal consideration of good/bad value" and "rip off".

[socrates63]

volcomjerk, how about saying X is a much better value than Y instead of saying Y is a rip off in comparison to X?

"Rip off" gives the impression that you think Ray is cheating people who buy his products. Based on my reading of this entire thread, I don't think that that is what you are saying at all. If I've understood correctly, you are emphasizing the point that you believe amp A (PINT) which costs only a fraction of amp B (Hornet) offers a better sound than amp B. Many people have agreed to this in this thread, and no one is disputing one's right to make such claims.

[volcomjerk]

Originally Posted by kdaq

Volcomjerk, when you say the Hornet is a rip off, we know that you are simply stating your opinion. That's well and good. There are, however, more respectful ways to go about doing it.

"Rip off" has an air of anger, and accusation to it. As to say, that Ray has done wrong to you.

Something like, "Not worth it to me", is a different story. This statement pays note to your own preferences, instead of degrading a design as a whole. Not to mention, calls attention to the the specific sound you experienced, with a particular set of supporting components that you happen to own and like. Every combination of source, amp, and headphones can sound different.

There are many folks at Head-Fi that appreciate the little details that Ray is quite good at paying attention to, both in amp design and customer service. If you wish to call him out, I for one would appreciate better supporting evidence.

Just my $0.02.

I understand what you are saying. I'm in no way attacking Ray and the point of this thread was not to attack the Hornet but rather let people maybe looking into something that's cheaper that will probably be just fine without spending that much money. I only pick on the Hornet because it's one of the more expensive Portable amps that I actually got to listen to. If I had brought say a XIN amp into the picture who am I to say anything about his amps? That's the only reason I'm picking the Hornet for the fact that I listened to it and the price point compared to a PINT.

What bugged me is when people start posting that they are afraid to say certain things when in consumer driven market I think it's fair to let new consumers know that they might not like what they paid for. Hence, my reason for using the term rip-off.

[nysulli]

Originally Posted by DieInAFire

hehe, hugs my PINT

clutching onto mine atm, you can pry this little wonder out of my cold dead hands

not to mention theres a little sentiment for me, being my first DIY project

[Gnus]

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

I don't mean to come off that way. Even if it is just opinion why are so many people afraid to even say a negative opinion here? I see so many reviews here and most of the time there's no one that flat out says IT SUCKS. You either like it or you don't because really that's what some people are saying without really saying it.

I think people do not state IT SUCKS because it is not very respectful to other's who might enjoy the sound. A good review is done with minimal bias and neutrally so that everyone who reads it can get a good grasp on the product.

Simply stating things like "it sucks, it's not worth the money" or stuff not related to the sound is not really helping anyone who reads the review.

[kdaq]

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

What bugged me is when people start posting that they are afraid to say certain things when in consumer driven market I think it's fair to let new consumers know that they might not like what they paid for. Hence, my reason for using the term rip-off.

Yup, I hear you. A few more thoughts, though.

It helps to qualify sweeping statements, like "rip off", with what aspects are being judged. I can't tell if you care about automatic recharging circuits, slick case design, warranties, quick turn-around, custom colors, gain controls, crossfeed, built-in toaster ovens, or sound quality from IEMs off an iPod..

My own feeling - when it all comes down to it, this hobby is too subjective for such strong words anyhow

[markl]

So who is telling the truth? The people who like the Pints or the Hornet?

Or perhaps truth and value are subjective in this regard and thus there is no truth, just opinion.

x2. I can't believe this even needs to be said.


After all this time, I still can't get over the weird paranoia that seems to grip a shockingly high percentage of Head-Fiers. We need a new piece of Head-Fi gear in the Head-Fi shop, a monogrammed Head-Fi Tin Foil Hat. Prevents the evil brainwashing rays emmanating from the forum software from penetrating your gray matter.

Did anyone really think this thread would be *deleted* because of an opinion that was given about one particular product? Really? Were you expecting Head-Fi secret police to be breaking down your door at any minute to abduct you and take your gear away?

Threads get closed when they break down into personal attacks or people start discussing politics. That's about it.

[wakeride74]

It's too bad this thread turned into what it is. I rather enjoyed the pics and positive impressions on the PINT.

I don't mean to come off that way. Even if it is just opinion why are so many people afraid to even say a negative opinion here? I see so many reviews here and most of the time there's no one that flat out says IT SUCKS. You either like it or you don't because really that's what some people are saying without really saying it.

I don't know where you are getting this Why the hell would anyone hiding behind their computers be affraid to tell it like it is? I think the truth is we are all dealing in a high end audio market so nothing really "sucks". Things may not appeal to your tastes, sonic or otherwise but again the high-end world does not accept sucky products... that's why we always bash Bose

[EdipisReks]

Originally Posted by markl

Did anyone really think this thread would be *deleted* because of an opinion that was given about one particular product?

why wouldn't it? it has happened many times in the past. well, to be fair, the STASI usually just delete individual posts pertaining to certain opinions of certain products made by a certain person, regardless of how correct or polite the posts are. it's not happening so much any more, which is good, but as someone who was ganged up on by the STASI and the STASI sympathizers not too long ago, i understand the basic paranoia quite well, thank you very much.

[kugino]

volcomjerk, you may not mean what the term "rip off" usually means to people, but let's just say that when i read through the thread and read your "rip off" post, i thought that was really being unfair. then i came to ray's post...i think he has every reason to be upset with people calling his stuff "rip offs".

markl is right about this gestapo-ish feeling around here. no one is not prohibited from posting subjective statements about various equipment..."i didn't like such and such's bass, it had no high end, etc." but a comment like "rip off," while a subjective opinion, is about someone's character and is considered a personal attack (at least i would take it that way).

[markl]

The continuation of this thread over 3 days and 5 pages of posts seems pretty good evidence that some of the hysterical fears expressed herein are unjustified.