Holy Batman! This PINT kicks freakin' butt!!!

[Teerawit]

Originally Posted by Azure

No difference in the actual board size? Why exactly is it called mini^3ified?

It uses the exact same PCB. It's "mini^3fied" because it's modified to be more like the mini^3 design (by amb and morsel, which hasn't been officially released yet). the mini^3 is a similar design to the PINT.

[bahamaman]

Originally Posted by Azure

For clarification, by "rip-off" I mean that there is a better product out there for my needs (Based on price and performance; no relation to the ethical practices of the manufacturer).

I think this may be the origin of the disagreement. My dictionary's definition of rip-off is a transaction tainted by fraud. That's what I think of when I hear the word. Little wonder that those with a similar understanding would find the expression offensive, at least when applied to the products of a seller with an excellent reputation for honesty.

[dhp]

Originally Posted by bahamaman

I think this may be the origin of the disagreement. My dictionary's definition of rip-off is a transaction tainted by fraud. That's what I think of when I hear the word. Little wonder that those with a similar understanding would find the expression offensive, at least when applied to the products of a seller with an excellent reputation for honesty.

Indeed.
He could've just simply have said that the PINT is a much better deal than the Hornet without resorting to such harshly unnecessary words

[kugino]

Originally Posted by Teerawit

Removes caps from the signal path for truer sound, and lowers the noise floor by alot (ie. no hiss).

the benefits of mini^3ifieing (is that a word?) is debatable, inside sources tell me

[elrod-tom]

Originally Posted by bahamaman

I think this may be the origin of the disagreement. My dictionary's definition of rip-off is a transaction tainted by fraud. That's what I think of when I hear the word. Little wonder that those with a similar understanding would find the expression offensive, at least when applied to the products of a seller with an excellent reputation for honesty.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say all along...thank you for putting it so well.

[GIGANTOID]

[Teerawit]

Originally Posted by kugino

the benefits of mini^3ifieing (is that a word?) is debatable, inside sources tell me

The major benefit is lower noise. Non-mini^3fied has major hiss issues. I originally built my PINT in the non-mini^3fied version but found it to be too noisy, so I mini^3fied it and have been happy ever since.

[Filburt]

Originally Posted by kugino

the benefits of mini^3ifieing (is that a word?) is debatable, inside sources tell me

I guess lower noise floor and dc offset as benefits is technically "debateable", but I have some doubts that many people would turn it down.

[NiceCans]

Originally Posted by Azure

So, the op-amp of choice with the PINT is the LM6172?

The usual is the 8937, which I found to be more harsh and agressive in addition to being a battery-hog.
The LM6172 is slightly warmer and smoother but still fast and punchy. Battery life increased from just over 4 hours to over 8 hours between charges.

Originally Posted by Azure

What are some builders (other than MisterX) that could build me a PINT?

I couldn't help ya here, perhaps search the forums or place a 'Wanted to Buy" ad in the used amp forum or DIY forum.

Originally Posted by Azure

Due to the lack of availability I may have to find an alternative; is the price/performance ratio of the Go-Vibe V5 close to the PINT?

If I had not gotten a PINT I would have run directly to buy a Go-Vibe v5. He has a good track record, my Go-Vibe v3 is wonderful, the price is nice, and it has been getting great reviews for the most part.

[utarch00]

[QUOTE=NiceCans]The usual is the 8937, which I found to be more harsh and agressive in addition to being a battery-hog.
The LM6172 is slightly warmer and smoother but still fast and punchy. Battery life increased from just over 4 hours to over 8 hours between charges. [QUOTE]

NiceCans

What are you using for the ground opamp?

I am using the AD8397 for L&R and LM6172 for ground. I would like my pint to be warmer also. Any suggestions?

[Filburt]

Try LM6172 on L/R, then.

I haven't been able to test it yet, but I think I may end up liking the AD8058 even better in the PINT for some of my music anyhow. I wish I could get a figure on what its current output is, but I haven't had trouble driving headphones with it CMoy-style so far. If you do try this chip, make sure not to go over 12V supply (e.g. don't do 2x9V). It's kind of an unusual part spec-wise. The open-loop gain is only around 52db and the -3db point is like 120KHz. I haven't been able to run it on a spec analyser yet to test distortion, but audibly it has a clean, wide, and dynamic response for me at least. I suspect it may actually not test out as well on distortion based on the datasheet. This could be due to making use of less feedback; I'm not sure really. I've got like 30 or so models of op-amp sitting around me, so I think I have at least a decent idea about what various ones sound like

I still like the 6172 a lot, though. It's got a bit richer sound to it that's pleasant, and it's quite detailed. The 8058 just sounds a more open and more balanced I think. Eh, kinda torn on what to do ;D

I also actually suspect the NJM4556 would sound pretty decent in the PINT, based on my tests of it thus far. Just don't have any boards to test all this!

[NiceCans]

Originally Posted by utarch00

What are you using for the ground opamp?

I am using the AD8397 for L&R and LM6172 for ground. I would like my pint to be warmer also. Any suggestions?

It was originally built with AD8937 for the left & right channels / NJR4580E for the ground channel.
Other than that I cannot give you an answer because I do not know if the ground channel was modified also when the opamps were replaced with LM6172 left & right channels.

[volcomjerk]

I'm in awe and I don't know what to say, I come back after a day or 2 to see the thread is just a mess. When I use the term "rip-off" I don't mean it in a way that Ray is cheating his way out of his Hornet so get over it. I'm not the only person that has wanted to state an opinion and then everyone in camp B pounces person who states opinion in camp A. This is the life of Head-Fi and I don't want to start anymore opinionated threads because of this.

First off... what I thought was a great discussion forum is merely just a forum for people to state neutrally what they like. This then turns into someone new coming here and wondering what's good and what's not and finds that there's nothing that is really junk so they start a thread 50912093 "What amp should I get?" (that was me when I began) and of course everyone only states what they own or what they've heard. This of course leads to the most popular amp the Hornet and so the most clueless kids with lots of money goes out and buys a Hornet. Which to me is just not to par with the Pint costing almost a 1/4 of the price. (NOW PLEASE NO MORE COUNTER ATTACKS ABOUT MY OPINION).

Second... To me I couldn't tell the difference between a Hornet and the source. I'm not going to pay close to 400 for something that makes little or no difference. I want results when I spend that much money. If that's not enough evidence as to why i think the Hornet is a "rip-off" then please keep paying top dollar for whatever makes you happy. Yes, I agree audio is all subjective blah blah blah blah but there are times when it's clearly obvious when something can suck especially at a certain price point. Plus this is portable audio... it's a freakin toy market. I was laughing at myself thinking why I would spend that much money on something that I'm not going to give that much critical listening to at work or even on the go. In the portable market I think it's absolutely critical for a product to have the best bang for the buck. For as much as I paid for the Hornet I could have paid for something at Home that would rival it 50x. Let's face it people you aren't going to be toting around your home desktop rigs around in your little pocket.

Third... I mean no disrespect to Ray because he has a great return policy and like I said I'm thankful to get to try it out free of charge but I don't like the fact that Ray speaks about his products in a discussion forum and lurks reviews or impressions and replies. I find it very weird and I think that ALL manufacturers should let their products speak for itself and let the customers come up with the verdicts. I'd rather talk to Ray personally in an email or on the phone. What I say or do in a discussion forum is for customers/consumers to talk about.

Fourth... I find no point in posting impressions or opinions when everyone just replies with the same thing and ends the same way. This not only leads to more confusion amongst consumers but no one has a good view of what's really great and what's not so great. Sure sure we all prefer different sounds but seriously sometimes there is **** out there that is way overpriced.

This is my last post in this thread and with that, just listen to everything yourself whether it cost 50 bucks or 1000 and decide for yourself. Don't let Head-Fi teams determine what's best. I know I made the mistake of hopping on the Hornet bandwagon only because everyone else owns one but in the end when I heard it... I was pretty much surprised to find that I didn't like it because I couldn't believe that something that expensive made little or no difference in the sound signature. That's when I started catching on that just cause everyone owns it doesn't mean it's the best.

[elrod-tom]

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

When I use the term "rip-off" I don't mean it in a way that Ray is cheating his way out of his Hornet so get over it.

You say that...but it's abundently clear that a lot of folks here (and not just RSA fanboys) took umbrage at your unfortunate choice of words. After all that, it's too bad that you feel like you need to cop an attitude.

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

I'm not the only person that has wanted to state an opinion and then everyone in camp B pounces person who states opinion in camp A. This is the life of Head-Fi and I don't want to start anymore opinionated threads because of this.

Nobody will have a problem with you stating your opinion. It's the manner in which you state it. Saying that a manufacturer's product is not the best value, or that it's sonic signature is not to your liking, is one thing. Saying that it's a "rip-off", it "sucks", and so on is going to do little more than make reasonable people wonder if someone with the word "jerk" in his screenname isn't intentionally looking for trouble. When you start howling about being banned by moderators before any moderator has posted in the thread, it makes people wonder even more.

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

NOW PLEASE NO MORE COUNTER ATTACKS ABOUT MY OPINION

Again, it's not your opinion, it's the manner in which you state things.

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

Second... To me I couldn't tell the difference between a Hornet and the source. I'm not going to pay close to 400 for something that makes little or no difference. I want results when I spend that much money. If that's not enough evidence as to why i think the Hornet is a "rip-off" then please keep paying top dollar for whatever makes you happy.

Again, rip-off...after all this, you're still doing it. Again, reasonable people will wonder whether you're intentionally looking for trouble.

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

Third... I mean no disrespect to Ray because he has a great return policy and like I said I'm thankful to get to try it out free of charge but I don't like the fact that Ray speaks about his products in a discussion forum and lurks reviews or impressions and replies. I find it very weird and I think that ALL manufacturers should let their products speak for itself and let the customers come up with the verdicts. I'd rather talk to Ray personally in an email or on the phone. What I say or do in a discussion forum is for customers/consumers to talk about.

I'll be honest, I think sometimes Ray does himself more harm than good by doing just that. However, I also think that he probably felt like he was being attacked (whether that was your intent or not) and felt the need to defend himself. I know the man well enough to know that he takes it personally when someone isn't happy with one of his products...maybe a bit too personally at times. Not everyone is going to love your product, but it's hard not to speak up when words like "rip-off" and "sucks" are being thrown around. I can't really fault him for it in this instance.

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

Fourth... I find no point in posting impressions or opinions when everyone just replies with the same thing and ends the same way. This not only leads to more confusion amongst consumers but no one has a good view of what's really great and what's not so great. Sure sure we all prefer different sounds but seriously sometimes there is **** out there that is way overpriced.

It is simply not true that "everyone" just replies with the same thing and ends the same way. We have differing opinions about virtually every amp here. The difference is that most folks find a way to express their preference for one amp or the other without trashing another amp in the process.

Originally Posted by volcomjerk

This is my last post in this thread and with that, just listen to everything yourself whether it cost 50 bucks or 1000 and decide for yourself. Don't let Head-Fi teams determine what's best. I know I made the mistake of hopping on the Hornet bandwagon only because everyone else owns one but in the end when I heard it... I was pretty much surprised to find that I didn't like it because I couldn't believe that something that expensive made little or no difference in the sound signature. That's when I started catching on that just cause everyone owns it doesn't mean it's the best.

I don't think that ANYONE here thinks that listening to something for yourself is a bad idea. Over and over and over again, the recommendation to attend a meet is offered to the newer member trying to decide on an amp. That's not to say that one might not take the recommendation of a friend or a member who has similar listening habits.

In closing, I want to make this very clear: nobody ought to be riding roughshod over you for expressing a respectful but less-than-glowing opinion about anyone's amp on these boards. There are several amps that I simply don't care for...when asked, I respond that the amp in question isn't to my taste sonically, that I think there are better values for the money, that I prefer the construction of another manufacturer's amps, and so on. I don't see the point of saying that someone's amp is a rip-off, or that it sucks. All that does is start flame wars, and we like to keep those to a minimum. It's my job as a moderator to keep the peace, and if a member were to become involved in flame war after flame war, eventually I'd have to do something about it. So I encourage you to find a way to express yourself such that we won't have to go to that place.

[Solitary1]

I'm kicking this thread back into gear, not because of all the other stuff but because of the OP's original statement. This PINT kicks some serious butt! I bought mine used about a month and a half ago because of this thread (I had stopped reading it before all of the venomous stuff started, although it DOES answer my questions regarding the censorship I experienced), but it was in a mint tin, had no charging circuit, and wasn't constructed all that well. The MAN, MisterX gave it a rebirth as apparently only he can do, and it is now in a black Hammond case with the trickle charge circuitry in place, an LM6172 replacing the AD8397 in the ground circuitry, the power LED, etc. It's also mini^fied. I sent to him on a Thursday, and had it in my hands a week later (this past Friday to be exact). I'm sure some of you have seen my thread regarding the new Faith amp from mSEED Labs, and I take nothing back regarding my opinions of that wonderful little amp. This PINT is a different animal soundwise, but no less engaging, and as I said regarding the Faith amp; those high-end portables are going to have to be saying something serious to my ears to convince me of the worthiness of the significant price increases they require compared to the PINT and the Faith amp. I haven't used my X-Can v3 in over a week....