Disturbing Trend

[boomana]

Originally Posted by mcmyers

Funny you should post about this disturbing trend, as I was recently considering starting a thread on the disturbing trend of people saying that HD 650s will not sound good unless you have an expensive home amp. I recently bought 650s, and I'm amping with my Hornet, and I was worried that they might sound slow and muddy and boring, as lots of people have claimed, but they sound amazing to me. I also tried them straight out of my iPod Nano, and they still sounded pretty good.

Now, is this to say that they won't sound increasingly better with increasingly better equipment? Of course not. Of course I eventually want to get a great home amp. But to claim that they sound bad with something like the Hornet, to me, is misleading.

I've owned your identical set-up. It doesn't sound bad. It just doesn't sound good once you've heard other. Again, nothing wrong with starting out this way, or enjoying what goodness it offers. I'm just tired of recommendations that say portables can drive certain headphones, when they can't in terms of the sound quality the headphones were meant to have.

Re the Pico, and even the Predator, I'm hoping to hear both this weekend. I'm encouraged that better quality portable amps and amp/dacs are being created. They serve a purpose, but I sincerely doubt that either Justin or Ray would say that their portables drive these headphones as they should, even if they do it better than previous models. They'd stop making home amps altogether if they thought that, and that ain't happening.

[dw6928]

Thanks Boomana,
Just last night I ran my 701s through a Move and then sat down at the desktop and ran them through a Heed Canamp.
It was if the 701s were completely different headphones, not
better, completely different and exponentially superior. Boomana's point is well-founded.

[Podster]

Originally Posted by mcmyers

Funny you should post about this disturbing trend, as I was recently considering starting a thread on the disturbing trend of people saying that HD 650s will not sound good unless you have an expensive home amp. I recently bought 650s, and I'm amping with my Hornet, and I was worried that they might sound slow and muddy and boring, as lots of people have claimed, but they sound amazing to me. I also tried them straight out of my iPod Nano, and they still sounded pretty good.

Now, is this to say that they won't sound increasingly better with increasingly better equipment? Of course not. Of course I eventually want to get a great home amp. But to claim that they sound bad with something like the Hornet, to me, is misleading.

I have a theory. I've heard it said that the HD650s, perhaps more than any other dynamic headphone, can change their sound signature based on the equipment driving them. And I think that the people who claim that 650s only sound good with specific amps are people who don't like the sound signature they provide with different amps. Many people prefer a sound with some treble sparkle. They think this is more exciting. I, personally, do not. So perhaps someone listening to my 650s with a Hornet would call them boring or dark. To me, they are luscious.

So I wish people would stop claiming that 650s sound boring, bloated, or slow without a stellar amp to drive them. What they should say is that if you prefer a brighter, more exciting sound, you might have to get one of several specific amps for the 650s. But if you prefer a darker sound, you have different choices, including IMO the Hornet.

(Sorry I only addressed half of your argument. I have not heard K701s.)

MC, I don't recall Boomana saying bad just not on par with a solid home amp intended to drive larger less efficient phones.

Like I said as have many port builders they will push the big phones just fine but should not be confused with amps of a much higher caliber as opposed to a cigarette box size amp. Everything is a give and take so if you can live with a Mini^3 pushing your 650's or 701's more power to you

Just my .02 FWIW

[Podster]

Boomana pretty much summed it up in this:

"They'd stop making home amps altogether"

I bet Ray would be glad to explain and 10 to 1 his first question would be what environment are you going to be using.

If you never plan to leave you listening quarters and want to get everything out of your high end phones as intended you are not going to be recommended the Tomahawk or even the SR-71 when he makes the HR-2, XP-7 and Raptor!

[kool bubba ice]

Originally Posted by boomana

Every time I check into this forum, I find more and more threads recommending portable amps for headphones like the K701 and the HD650. WTF? I have not heard every portable amp out there, but I've owned and heard quite a few and currently own a LaRocco PRII, an SR-71 and a Rockhopper mini^3. NONE drive these headphones as they should be heard. I just gotta say it, and I'm surprised that more HD650 and K701 lovers, who've been lucky enough to hear them properly sourced and amped, aren't saying it as well.

Please note that I'm not saying that a portable amp isn't a good starting point (my first amp was a Headroom mircoamp, which I used with HD580s), can't offer enjoyment, or isn't an appropriate solution for people who travel or, like me, take things back and forth to work. I am saying that I'm disturbed by what I see as a trend that infers that if someone buys the K701s or the HD650, pairing them with a portable amp will give them the quality for which they are known. I'm not trying to be a snob, but I'm a big fan of both the Senns and the AKGs, and it irks me to think they are being short-changed with recommendations that make it appear portable amps will offer them what they need when it's not true.

That's it. My two cents. Flame away if you want, but know I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from getting either headphone and starting out this way. That's fine. I'm just confused as to why people on an audio forum, who should clearly be interested in the qualities of reference headphones, would continually recommend that they be short-changed to fit someone's budget, rather than suggesting people save their money and buy something created to drive them well. It reeks of a dumbing down of audio appreciation, and on a forum such as this, where sq is the priority (or is it?), I find it very disturbing.

BTW, sufficient volume does not equal sound quality.

Newbies think otherwise.. Misinformation is never good.. I can drive my 340's to loud levels with my DAC1, but I can tell they are very being limited by a amp is isn't powerful enough to drive them..

[wakeride74]

I think the HD-650 and SR-71 mate quite well. I have not heard the 701 with the SR-71 but I would have no complaints with a HD650 and SR-71 combo... for classical

As far as portability goes I do not understand such a combo. HD650 and K701 are both huge and open in design so that means they are portable when you are alone? The combo does not make much sense to me unless the amp is purchased to do double duty. Also keep in mind that portability is part of the price so a home amp could give you more SQ for the buck depending on the amp.

[Edwood]

The Pico is the only portable I've been tempted into having replace my desktop rig. But since I have the K1000's, my desktop rig is staying put for now.

-Ed

[Pete7]

Boomana- I agree with you wholeheartedly. The portable amp trend parallels another trend: People using computer-based rigs versus a high-end dedicated CDP(with or w/o DAC) based rig. I started with a computer-based home rig with an outboard DAC myself, and when I made the jump a while back to a dedicated CDP it made me almost cry at the difference in sound quality. While a computer based home rig is very convenient, I believe a lot of Head-Fier's are shortchanging themselves, thinking "it's just as good."

[mcmyers]

Originally Posted by boomana

I've owned your identical set-up. It doesn't sound bad. It just doesn't sound good once you've heard other.

Well, I look forward to the day when I have heard other (HR-2, Opera, or whatever). Because if what I'm hearing now isn't great, I'm going to need a new pair of shorts when I finally do hear great.

Seriously, though, I take your point that you just don't want people being misled into low-end gear for the convenience sake of portability. My only point is that the 650s sound better than any other headphone I've tried (including SR-80s, 595s, D2000s, and DT990s) even though I'm not driving them as well as they can be driven. And if I had taken the advice of many, I would have stuck with easier to drive phones and been less happy until I bought a better amp.

Plus, there's something exciting knowing that I now have the phones I like, and that they have almost limitless scalability.

[pedxing]

I remember reading too many threads where most of the people recommended portable amps when the person wanted a quality desktop solution at an affordable price. The way I see it, some of the newer portable amps are putting more emphasis in rechargeable systems and miniaturization. I also guess there is a large number of users who don't want to lug around an amp the size of a computer desktop either. They want to use at work and at home too, so a portable solution is more convenient and it doesn't look as obtrusive.

I think people just make recommendations without much thinking about the person's actual requirements and since most people seem to use their gear with ipods, it would make sense most of the recommendations will be based on portable or small solutions.