Disturbing Trend

[joneeboi]

Originally Posted by boomana

I'm just confused as to why people on an audio forum, who should clearly be interested in the qualities of reference headphones, would continually recommend that they be short-changed to fit someone's budget, rather than suggesting people save their money and buy something created to drive them well.

One of my favourite Simpsons quotes goes as follows:

Homer: Are you sure you don’t want to come? In a civil war re-enactment we need lots of Indians to shoot.
Apu: I don’t know what part of that sentence to correct first.

Apu's response is especially how I feel about your objection to portable amps and affinity to home amps.

I'd say some of us buy the budget stuff because life's expenses consist of much more than having expensive, proper-headphone-driving listening gear, eg. families, rent or mortgage payments, groceries, transportation, tuition, etc. At the same time, how many non-top-of-the-line products have you bought?

And how would you define what drives another piece of equipment well? Would everyone have just home setups because all portable amps are insufficient? Would those who wanted to listen to their HD650s and K701s on the go be forbidden to do so by good head-fi manners because portable amps can't drive them well? To suggest that only home amps can drive HD650s is not only ignorant and intolerant of the budget-fi portion of not only head-fi but in every realm of life, but it is also completely fallacious in itself. For example, the Grado RA-1 can be considered as a home amp. Incidentally it doubles as a portable amp as the various CMoys that often pop up. You would need to define what a home amp is, and inevitably your definition would either be too broad that it could contain amps such as the RA-1 or too narrow that it would exclude amps like the RA-1. Besides, who's to say that all home amps not only better portable amps in sound, but that they drive all headphones properly? I wouldn't check off your name in that ballot, no matter what gear listing you had.

Further, what do you have to say about Tyll Hertsens going the way of the desktop speaker setup? Clearly everyone here should "be interested in the qualities of reference headphones," including one of the premier sponsors and one of the foremen of the headphone amp movement.

With your minimalistic view of audio, meets would be pointless because there would be two clearly distinct groups: those with nothing good to listen to since they couldn't afford the rig that drives their headphones well and those that can, whose setups would have very little variation.

Not only did you fail in all the aforementioned aspects, but you fail to clarify whether any of these portable amp praisers have heard anything better. Are they just saying, "Hey, I like this amp with this headphone!" or are they saying, "Hey, this portable amp kills all home amps and is the end of the listening experience," the latter of which I would accept as the only credible objection raised in this thread.

I could go on...

[holland]

I don't know what the issue is.

For my portable, I have a backpack gas powered generator feeding a voltage regulator and plugged into my amp that is deeply class A biased at > 60mA that is hung from my neck.

I have a 4TB RAID array full of FLAC with 4GB RAM buffers strapped to one leg. A "high end" DAC strapped to another. I look like a suicide bomber, and I can't get through airport security.

Portable is in the eye of the beholder.

[dkpaul]

I'm using a portable amp with HD650... I want to move a step up - I think Opera might do the job.
But wait, I also need a good source.

Between the two and the balanced cables, I'm expecting $2500 - $3000. That's not petty change for me.

So, I guess the reason why portables are main topic is because mid-hi stuff are not as accessible as the portable.
In other words, most people expect more even paying less.

I once googled Vcoheda's Meridian G8... damn that thing is expensive. I wonder how it sounds.

It's just takes time(and money) to climb up there... tyring many gears on the way...

I think this post makes a clear point. You always get what you pay for.

Hi-Fi = Hi-budget

[holland]

Originally Posted by dkpaul

I think this post makes a clear point. You always get what you pay for.

Hi-Fi = Hi-budget

I disagree.

Hi-Fi is personal. High budget doesn't always equate to better. In a vague and ambiguous area, there are those who take a stand and those who are sheep. There are snake oil salesman who prey on the sheep, as there are sheep who follow what others say.

Hi-Fi is where you stop hearing the difference. For each, it is an individual journey.

[ounkchicago]

Originally Posted by joneeboi

With your minimalistic view of audio, meets would be pointless because there would be two clearly distinct groups: those with nothing good to listen to since they couldn't afford the rig that drives their headphones well and those that can, whose setups would have very little variation.

I was thinking the same thing, but joneeboi said it much better than I could say it myself. The rig that "drives their headphones well" is subjective and ill-defined. I understand that many people wish to draw a line on the ground and throw all the amplifiers that don't drive their headphones well on one side of the line, and keep all the others on their side of the line, within their consideration set. But this line is subjective, and can be erased and moved, depending on who is doing the deciding.

Drawing a line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" is just a simplification resulting from ease of communication. It is easier to say that this amp works with this headphone, but this other amp does not. But this is just what we say to make our point. The reality is that these amplifiers fall on a continuum of more and less, not just yes and no.

[Drag0n]

Oracle CD Player > Nordost Valhalla Interconnect > RSA Apache Headphone Amp > Kimber Silver Headphone Recable > KOSS KSC75 Headphones

If someone cant afford an Apache amp, using a modest amp on a Sennheiser HD650 would be better than a lower model headphone on a matching catagory amp, like a Koss KSC75 and a Cmoy as a paired up match because of price catagory.

Sennheiser HD650's arent so much a dream to try to reach because $350 or so is attainable to have the reasonable "Best", without going as rediculously esoteric as the Orpheous,etc.

A person without as much money can buy a reachable amp for $300 and a Senn 650 and decent cables and maybe a Rotel or similar CD player and have a really good sounding system for under $1200, which for a full system can be attainable for most people. Or buy the nice comfy Senn 650 now, and add later even, and even though its not being run at its best, you know that whatever is before it is at its limit in sound and you at least got the 650 sound signature,if thats your cup of tea.

I have lots of little portable headphones here. Yes i could have just saved my money and got one big killer system, but frankly im having fun just playing with my little toys and listening to how each sounds and helping noobees find their first inexpensive rig.

All my little portable amps are in the $100-$125 range, nothing uber special here, but theyre fun.

I have plans on buying better things ,and all thats in my profile, and i will get them.....but for now, all my little inexpensive toys are alot of fun.

This isnt a contest, or a fashion show, or a test at college.
Match up what makes you happy,and if you can offer some honest advice,then do so. Thats the fun of it all.

Some people here talk their butts off and have 20,000 posts in a year of being here and say nothing, and others have 100 posts and have been here 6 years,and sometimes the guy with 100 posts has owned and heard higher end equipment than the guy with 20,000 posts, but hopefully both are having fun and being a meaningful part of the Head-Fi community no matter what theyre doing,and for how long.

[PhaedrusX]

Originally Posted by boomana

I'm not ridiculing anyone, and that's not what this thread is about. I don't think you have to break the bank to get good sound, and that includes the 701s and 650s. On the other hand, why can't it be said, without being accused of ridicule, that certain headphones don't sound right with portable gear. Find me one portable amp that makes the K701s sound as well as they can sound with even a modest home amp. That's just truth. Where is the ridicule in that?

the ridicule in that stems from your insinuation that if people don't have the resources or the desire to go higher up the chain, then they should.

i haven't seen any posts stating that the tomahawk bests any home amp on the market, and if there are people out there making those claims, there are hardly enough of them to comprise a "disturbing trend."

what is disturbing is some of the delicate sensibilities around here that feel that a headphone is being disrespected or "insulted" [as one poster stated] if not paired with higher end gear. i wasn't aware that headphones had feelings.

if there's anything portable amp users could be guilty of, it would be over enthusiasm and hyperbole. but the same could be said for posters of high end gear, as well.

the mantra here seems to be, "if it sounds good, it is good."

is this just lip service, or something to be typed with one hand while the other crosses its fingers behind one's back?

-a n00b

[jp11801]

Originally Posted by PhaedrusX

the ridicule in that stems from your insinuation that if people don't have the resources or the desire to go higher up the chain, then they should.


-a n00b

can't you read man the post stated twice that no ridicule was intended.

All that was said and or intended is rather than blow your load on a cheap portable and later sell maybe just F-ing maybe you could save up and buy a well regarded yet entry level amp. Like the Heed Can Amp or Eddie Current EC/SS or even a frigging dark voice.

[jp11801]

,

[jp11801]

Having heard many set ups with many headphones at over a dozen meets and two nations. I can say this that yes setting up a dedicated home rig is essential to a greater quality experience.

There is no need to spend many thousands of dollars if your budget is tight you can do this for under a grand in most cases.
For example a senn 650 or AKG 701 or Grado 225 used with a scott nixon usb dac or used vdp of audiogon that 5 years ago was the "cats meow" into a heed can amp or ecss or used Dynahi ( a real sleeper of an amp if you can ever find a used one) will afford quality listening sessions.

Is there room to grow yes and could you spend $10,000 easily but you donlt have to if you are budget constrained.

Also as a side note this thread has tickled a thought that always stimulates me. Why is it that everyone has to be special. I mean isn't it ok to struggle and not have the best set but strive for something down the road. What is it about modern humans that we can't simply accept that he our crap isn't the best but it's what I have now and I am simply going to enjoy it.

Peace Out hope to see you all at a meet soon