Darkvoice 337 - A Review

[Hellenback]

Originally Posted by Skylab

I think people have their greater than/less than signs confused. The 337 is the best, the 332 below that, and the 336i below that, in terms of sound quality. The 336i is a nice amp, but it's nowhere near as good sounding as the 337.

All the discussion around these Darkvoice amps makes them a very tempting option. Price wise I think they would be hard to beat. (That is unless Skylab had not sold his ASL while the site was down and I'd had a chance to buy it!)
Skylab, with the general opinion seeming to be that there isn't a HUGE difference in sound between the 337 and the 332 would you think the 332 to be a better choice than the ASL?

[Skylab]

I really can't say without having heard the 332. But the 337 is quite a bit better than the ASL MG head, which itself is a very nice amp.

[Skylab]

Originally Posted by Hellenback

All the discussion around these Darkvoice amps makes them a very tempting option. Price wise I think they would be hard to beat. (That is unless Skylab had not sold his ASL while the site was down and I'd had a chance to buy it!)
Skylab, with the general opinion seeming to be that there isn't a HUGE difference in sound between the 337 and the 332 would you think the 332 to be a better choice than the ASL?

I really can't say without having heard the 332. But the 337 is quite a bit better than the ASL MG head, which itself is a very nice amp.

[Hellenback]

Just not nice enough to keep when you have a DV337!

[MaloS]

Originally Posted by Skylab

I really can't say without having heard the 332. But the 337 is quite a bit better than the ASL MG head, which itself is a very nice amp.

Heh, have you heard an MG with completely replaced internals? Quite quite something... (just curiosity).

[Mazuki]

I am not sure if the DV will accommodate some of the "alternatives" to the 6AS7. Only the 6080 is truly identical. The 5998, 2399, 421a, 6528, 6336, 7208, and 7236, are all electrically different enough from the 6AS7/6080 that they might cause problems.

The main difference between the 6AS7 and 5998, besides the higher quality construction, is the mu. It's only 2 in the 6AS7 but 5.4 in the 5998. Basically, the 5998 is a higher gain tube than the 6AS7. The result is better performance for lower impedance headphones.

The 6336A is basically 2 6AS7 in parallel and the 6528 is basically 2 5998s in parallel.

[tomjtx]

Mazuki,
thanks for that info. Does that mean the 5998 will work in the 337?

What tubes are you using now?

[Hellenback]

Originally Posted by MaloS

Heh, have you heard an MG with completely replaced internals? Quite quite something... (just curiosity).

Which modifications are you speaking of and how much would it ultimately cost?
I really like the 5 year warranty and local support for the ASL (as well as it's stock sound). If there is a future upgrade that takes it to another level I would be very interested in hearing about it. I love things that are a little future proof! (I don't want to thread-jack though so if there is a better place for this question/answer I'd be happy to move it on over.)

[MaloS]

Originally Posted by Hellenback

Which modifications are you speaking of and how much would it ultimately cost?
I really like the 5 year warranty and local support for the ASL (as well as it's stock sound). If there is a future upgrade that takes it to another level I would be very interested in hearing about it. I love things that are a little future proof! (I don't want to thread-jack though so if there is a better place for this question/answer I'd be happy to move it on over.)

The amp was modded by Empirical Audio, they told me that essentially the eternals were entirely replaced by higher quality components (the components used by ASL are not much to write home about, heh). Overall, including expensive tubes, the resulting mods cost sub-$400. I am not sure if they offer the mod now, but it sounded quite nice, very tubey but now refined also.

Although mind you, if you like the sound of MG Head, it would be a better idea to go for DT32, no?

[Hellenback]

Originally Posted by MaloS

The amp was modded by Empirical Audio, they told me that essentially the eternals were entirely replaced by higher quality components (the components used by ASL are not much to write home about, heh). Overall, including expensive tubes, the resulting mods cost sub-$400. I am not sure if they offer the mod now, but it sounded quite nice, very tubey but now refined also.

Although mind you, if you like the sound of MG Head, it would be a better idea to go for DT32, no?

I have such limited experience with headphone amps, and tube amps in particular (read, I've heard the ASL and that's it!) that the fact that I "like" the sound of the ASL MG MKIII means very little. I'm sure there are lot of other amps I'd probably like more. I'm just looking to get into a decent tube headphone amp for < $400. The fact that the ASL has a separate power supply has always impressed me. It led me to believe that something like you mentioned (Mazuki) could be done at a later date if I wanted a better sounding amp. The Darkvoice 332 sounds impressive, but there hasn't been a direct comparison of it and the ASL and Skylab said he liked the ASL better than the 336i. I would prefer to get an amp that can be serviced locally if anything goes wrong, as my income is less than limited! I'd love to go for the 337 but I just don't have $700 I can spend on a dedicated headphone amp right now. I'm still wrestling with the price of headphone amps in general, given the fact that you can get a pretty good sounding surround sound receiver for $500. (Or at least you could in 2000 when I bought my Yamaha RXV495) I figure$700 would be the cost today of something with equivalent specs. I know it's a niche market and there isn't the volume to bring the price down yet, but it doesn't seem to be improving with the news of the Meier, Headamp, and Headroom amp price hikes. All I have right now is a Xenos 1HA-EPC, which to be perfectly honest doesn't sound that much better than the headphone out of my Yamaha amp with the Sen 650s. Maybe it's a good headphone out but I'm sure you get my point. The ASL sounded significantly better than the Xenos. Better enough to spend $400 or so. The "future proof" comment pretty much sums up my preference due to financial constraints. If I get the ASL, and live with it for three to five years, then either the price of headphone amps will have gone down by then or I will be able to build a better amp in the enclosure (with a separate power supply) for less than the cost of an entirely new and better amp. If $400 makes a new amp out of the ASL, (one that can compete with today's $700 amps) then it is looking like a good investment. (Now I've really thread-jacked I won't bug you any more on this one, but comments are welcome.)

[MaloS]

I owned Darkvoice 332 (same price pretty much), as a stock it is superior to MG Head by a large margin, one of my fav single-ended amplilfiers.

That being said, replacing all components of MG Head is a nice mod...but what is stopping you from doing the same with the Darkvoice, eh? If you are willing to later build an amp, then you will have some monstrous options (maxed Millet Hybrid in dual-mono balanced setup could be quite something, or if you get a taste for solid-state, one can manage a very nice B22 build for around 700 dollars). So if you are choosing an amp for time being, choose an amp that you can also resell. I am pretty certain that something like Darkvoice 332 or Gilmore Lite will not go down in value by much, but MG Heads go for $200-250 used (while $400 new), which means if you want to avoid losing much value you will have to go for a used one right off the bat.

Cheers, just my 2c.

Oh and on the case of separate power supply - take a good tube amp with internal power supply...say, SinglePower mpx3, or Darkvoice 332/337 - you will notice that they are substantially larger in size than the MG Head. Your call what's more impressive...while I had the Darkvoice, everyone who walked into my room said 'holy crap what is that, its size alone makes it awesome!' (or along those lines)...lets not even mention the comments I got with regards to the FEEL HP200SE I got off Skylab.

[Mazuki]

Mazuki,
thanks for that info. Does that mean the 5998 will work in the 337?

What tubes are you using now?

Yes, the 5998 will work perfectly fine with the 337. If you can get your hands on a pair, that would be superb.

I'm using a pair of RCA 7C7 loctals and a pair of RCA JAN-CRC 6AS7s currently.

[Mazuki]

FEEL HP200SE I got off Skylab.

That Skylab got off me, hehe.

The "future proof" comment pretty much sums up my preference due to financial constraints.

As long as you keep reading Head-Fi, I don't think future-proofing is possible. Something new always pops up.

So if you are choosing an amp for time being, choose an amp that you can also resell.

MaloS cannot be more correct. Resell ability is something to keep in mind. If you're just starting out in this hobby, always buy used. You'll save a lot of money and yet still be able to sample a lot of equipment.

That being said, replacing all components of MG Head is a nice mod...but what is stopping you from doing the same with the Darkvoice, eh?

I don't think changing all the components in the amp will significantly alter the sonic character of the circuit topology.

What kind of source do you have? That makes a huge difference in my opinion.

Don't forget, the single most important link in the chain is the set of headphones you are using.

[Hellenback]

I'm using HD650s and I'm sticking with them. I love their sound. It's like the HD600 with some muscle. A decent amp pretty much clears up the misconception it isn't as detailed, it just has more sound so needs a better amp to separate and distinguish the frequencies. (Always IMO) If you liked the 332 that much better Malos I appreciate/respect your input. I nearly sprang for one on ebay with Casque but the bid went within $5 of what it costs to buy outright from the store and I think there are better communication options when dealing directly with "Audiophile China". I think I'll sit back and listen to the music on what I have for awhile and keep my ears open (so to speak). Thanks again Malos for the head's up on the 332, and to Mazuki for putting up with me in his thread (and his validation of what's been said). If the 332 is a clear winner sound wise, then it seems like the one to go for at the $400 mark. By the way, my source is a Pioneer universal 563a. No DAC yet, and I know it isn't the best, but I've certainly heard worse!

[MaloS]

No need for a DAC (unless you need to use PC), you can always just get a nice CDP. Somewhat old ones command very reserved prices on the used market, and will probably give you the best run for the budget =]