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| Computer Audio Discussion of computers as source components, sound cards, USB DACs, media servers, etc. |
07-07-2004, 10:39 AM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: I Live In A Gigantic Bucket
Posts: 200
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Soundcard vs. Soundcard + external DAC
I've decided, for the time being at least, that I want to upgrade my source by getting a new soundcard. But I'm not sure whether it's better to purchase a very nice card (such as the HDSP 9632, possibly with mods) or instead go with a cheaper card and purchase an external DAC.
I'm looking to spend up to $1000, possibly a little more if there is something truly exceptional available. What would yield the best sound in this price range?
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07-07-2004, 12:54 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia.
Posts: 3,583
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I wish I could spend that kind of money. I would buy an M-Audio Transit and a Benchmark DAC.
__________________
* Music: Independent/underground hip-hop, funk, jazz, breaks, turntablism, soul, rare groove... This is some of what I'm listening to...
* Main Source: iTunes/Apple PBG4/LaCie d2 HD -> Apple Airport Express.
* Main Headphone Amp: Single Power PPX3 (with Solen capacitor), with Ei Elite driver & US GE Military 6cg7 tubes as outputs.
* Headphones: Beyer DT 990 (2005), Senn HD 595 (120 ohm), Beyer DT 990 Pro, AT ATH-A900, Beyer DT 531, Alessandro MS-1 (Todds Flat Pads), Senn HD 25-1, Senn PX 100, UE Super.fi 5 EB Earphones (black).
* Post your headphone reviews at http://www.headphonereviews.org/
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07-07-2004, 01:28 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Posts: 2,904
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 3lusiv3
I wish I could spend that kind of money. I would buy an M-Audio Transit and a Benchmark DAC.
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Nenenenenene. 
I own a M-audio Sonica and a Benchmark DAC.
In direct comparison this combo clearly (not exaggerated as usual) outclasses the stock RME Digi 96/8 PAD and the stock EMU.
I can't tell you about the modded RME HDSP 9632, never listened through it.
What I like is the versatility ( several digital connectors, adjustable voltage, built-in decent headphone amp) and the transportability.
I'm satisfied, no urge to upgrade the source anymore.
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07-07-2004, 01:47 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: I Live In A Gigantic Bucket
Posts: 200
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 3lusiv3
I wish I could spend that kind of money. I would buy an M-Audio Transit and a Benchmark DAC.
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Yeah it's mostly due to the 80+ hour work week I'm doing right now. Otherwise my budget would be a lot more modest.
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07-07-2004, 01:56 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Posts: 2,904
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by k.ODOMA
Yeah it's mostly due to the 80+ hour work week I'm doing right now. Otherwise my budget would be a lot more modest.
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80+?
How can you find time for listening? At work?
I'm working only 60 hours and sometimes I think that even that is too much.
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07-07-2004, 02:03 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia.
Posts: 3,583
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosmopragma
only 60 hours
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"ONLY" 60 hours!
80+ !
Geez, you guys need a break. I do a mere 40 hours.
__________________
* Music: Independent/underground hip-hop, funk, jazz, breaks, turntablism, soul, rare groove... This is some of what I'm listening to...
* Main Source: iTunes/Apple PBG4/LaCie d2 HD -> Apple Airport Express.
* Main Headphone Amp: Single Power PPX3 (with Solen capacitor), with Ei Elite driver & US GE Military 6cg7 tubes as outputs.
* Headphones: Beyer DT 990 (2005), Senn HD 595 (120 ohm), Beyer DT 990 Pro, AT ATH-A900, Beyer DT 531, Alessandro MS-1 (Todds Flat Pads), Senn HD 25-1, Senn PX 100, UE Super.fi 5 EB Earphones (black).
* Post your headphone reviews at http://www.headphonereviews.org/
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07-07-2004, 02:10 PM
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1000+ Member
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,387
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosmopragma
In direct comparison this combo clearly (not exaggerated as usual) outclasses the stock RME Digi 96/8 PAD and the stock EMU.
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glad to know this amen. i was afraid of lojay's EMU giving my benchmark/apogee a run of their money.
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07-07-2004, 02:26 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Videographus Supremus:
Makes audio cables using super-advanced materials, like "some clear tape" and "some not so clear tape."
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 8,358
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Get a used Benchmark DAC1, power conditioner, glass toslink, and powercord. That should keep you around $1000.
I am for external DACs because you have the option of power conditioning and shorter analog interconnects to your amp. Those can easily "make or break" a quality system.
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07-07-2004, 03:17 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: I Live In A Gigantic Bucket
Posts: 200
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cosmopragma
80+?
How can you find time for listening? At work?
I'm working only 60 hours and sometimes I think that even that is too much.
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Basically I don't listen right now. I'm either asleep or at work and while I have a boombox at work, my workplace is loud enough that listening to music most the time isn't very enjoyable. Luckily all this madness should end by the end of July.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lan
Get a used Benchmark DAC1, power conditioner, glass toslink, and powercord. That should keep you around $1000.
I am for external DACs because you have the option of power conditioning and shorter analog interconnects to your amp. Those can easily "make or break" a quality system.
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I would basically need a sound card that could send a clean digital signal to the DAC, right? From what I've heard, this can be done by some of the inexpensive sound cards, so which one would be an appropriate mix with the Benchmark?
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07-07-2004, 03:23 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,504
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You can get a Yamaha DP-U50 on ebay for around $70. You can then feed the digital out to the Benchmark, then from the Benchmark analog out to a dedicated headphone amp.
The amp section on the Yamaha is only so so. The amp section on the Benchmark is okay, but nothing spetacular.
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07-07-2004, 03:26 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Videographus Supremus:
Makes audio cables using super-advanced materials, like "some clear tape" and "some not so clear tape."
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 8,358
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by k.ODOMA
I would basically need a sound card that could send a clean digital signal to the DAC, right? From what I've heard, this can be done by some of the inexpensive sound cards, so which one would be an appropriate mix with the Benchmark?
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The chaintech av710 is the super budget card of choice. The emu 1212m has the best digital out I've heard so far. The Benchmark DAC1 is supposed to be immune to incoming jitter so you should be able to get away with the cheapest card. I'm still for getting a better quality digital out. emu 0404 is $99 and could potentially be best card for digital out on a budget. Nobody has tested it in depth yet.
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07-07-2004, 03:33 PM
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100+ Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: I Live In A Gigantic Bucket
Posts: 200
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lan
The chaintech av710 is the super budget card of choice. The emu 1212m has the best digital out I've heard so far. The Benchmark DAC1 is supposed to be immune to incoming jitter so you should be able to get away with the cheapest card. I'm still for getting a better quality digital out. emu 0404 is $99 and could potentially be best card for digital out on a budget. Nobody has tested it in depth yet.
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I wouldn't have a problem spending a little more to get the 1212m + Benchmark, I just want to make sure that I'm not wasting money by buying a card whose benefits are wasted while using an external DAC.
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07-07-2004, 03:35 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Videographus Supremus:
Makes audio cables using super-advanced materials, like "some clear tape" and "some not so clear tape."
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 8,358
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Understandable. Then wait for emu 0404. It's $100 cheaper than 1212m. I don't think it's worth spending more when that $ can be used for powercord and powerconditioning which make more difference in sound quality.
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07-07-2004, 05:11 PM
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Junior Head-Fi'er
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 21
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Intrigued to hear people's further experiences in this thread, both in regards to comparisons of card quality as source -> DAC, as well as comparisons of card alone vs. card with external DAC. Not sure if its thread-jacking, but also curious on anyone who has run soundcard -> digital out -> digital amplifier in comparison.
Regarding the 0404, I've seen multiple mentions of 'waiting for it' -- isn't it available right now, or am I mixing up products? A quick look on eBay or Froogle in addition to the main E-MU site returns many listings of it being available and in stock from $89+.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...734142015&rd=1
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=...ogle&scoring=p
http://www.emu.com/
My only confusion with it is in regard to this link ( http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?105770) on whether its 24/192 or 24/96 supported.
I have only had a chance to run my RME 96/8 into a Nixon TubeDAC, which I was extremely impressed with in comparison to standard sources, but I'm still waiting for custom cables to show up so I can compare it to the analog outs.
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07-07-2004, 05:23 PM
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Headphoneus Supremus:
Videographus Supremus:
Makes audio cables using super-advanced materials, like "some clear tape" and "some not so clear tape."
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Yawk
Posts: 8,358
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The emu 0404 is starting to appear in stores. Yes it is available more now but nobody has really done a review. There needs to be some burnin time also so if people are wondering how the card is, you'll still have to wait for impressions.
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