Soundcard powerful enough to use as an amp?

[T.B.N.]

I have an X-Fi, which I hope to "hotrod" soon, and I was wondering whether or not that gives it enough juice to amp 80 ohm headphones so they sound good...

I heard that some headphones, like the DT770-80ohm, sound better with an amp, even though portables can power them. Would an X-Fi have enough power to make them sound good? What about if it were modded with better op-amps?

If not, what is the difference between a decent external amp and the ones in a sound card? More power?

Thanks for helping me out, I am a little confused

[CyberTheo]

Originally Posted by T.B.N.

I have an X-Fi, which I hope to "hotrod" soon, and I was wondering whether or not that gives it enough juice to amp 80 ohm headphones so they sound good...

I heard that some headphones, like the DT770-80ohm, sound better with an amp, even though portables can power them. Would an X-Fi have enough power to make them sound good? What about if it were modded with better op-amps?

If not, what is the difference between a decent external amp and the ones in a sound card? More power?

Thanks for helping me out, I am a little confused

IMO, being a Head-Fi'er, a good headphone amp is the best investment you can make, followed by both the headphone and sound card. However, the amp and headphone can follow you on any system upgrades, and they always will make your sound card sound better.

Most sound cards have mediocre to poor built-in headphone amplification stage. Any system will sound better with a separate headphone amp. A separate headphone amp has its own power supply that supplies cleaner power and more headroom. The circuit of a separate amp is also usually more sophisticated, and obviously isolated from the sound card circuit and the PC internals results in quieter background, more dynamic and more detailed sounding.

While many built-in headphone output may have "enough juice" to play loud, but playing loud enough doesn't mean good sounding. I found that my M-Audio Firewire Audiophile's built-in headphone output plays quite loud but it sounds thin and edgy especially with the volume turned up. I only use it for monitoring a recording; otherwise, I've always played through my headphone amps for general listening. And yes, without exception, the sound playing through any of my headphone amps is beyond compare to the built-in headphone out.

[LeonvB]

Any system will sound better with a separate headphone amp.

Sorry, that simply isn't true. I only rarely use my amp anymore. After modding my X-fi, the amount of detail that I got amped was lower than unamped. The extra link in the chain just isn't worth it anymore, at least for me.
Before the mod I couldn't hear that difference, but with the amp I just noticed much better dynamics. After the mod, the improvement the amp gave was lower, as the bigger power cap that's now on the X-fi reduced the amount of problems. The better opamps did however reveal that I was losing quite a bit of detail when running from the amp.

P.S. It's a modded X-fi into a RPX-33, to a K701. Hardly a phone that's easy to drive, and hardly a crappy amp.

[CyberTheo]

Originally Posted by LeonvB

Sorry, that simply isn't true. I only rarely use my amp anymore. After modding my X-fi, the amount of detail that I got amped was lower than unamped. The extra link in the chain just isn't worth it anymore, at least for me.
Before the mod I couldn't hear that difference, but with the amp I just noticed much better dynamics. After the mod, the improvement the amp gave was lower, as the bigger power cap that's now on the X-fi reduced the amount of problems. The better opamps did however reveal that I was losing quite a bit of detail when running from the amp.

P.S. It's a modded X-fi into a RPX-33, to a K701. Hardly a phone that's easy to drive, and hardly a crappy amp.

Hmm, replaced a few power caps in your sound card bettered a premium quality separate amp?! I haven't heard your specific combinations so I won't and can't argue. I respect your opinion; each to his own experience I guess.

The only other comment I have is that investing in a separate amp is more cost effective, more convenient and more flexible way to build your headphone rig when you have, beside your sound card, other high quality sources such as CD/DVD/SACD players, separate DAC, and god forbidden - a turntable.

[T.B.N.]

The only problem I have is that my sound-card- which supposedly has a pretty good DAC chip, would be feeding whatever amp I get through the card's headphone amp, which would make any clean amplification after that essentially useless, right?

Is it enough to simply turn down the sound on the computer so it is *closer* to line level out of the card, or is there some way of getting line-level out of an X-Fi?

Thanks for the info

[CyberTheo]

Do not tap from your sound card's headphone jack when connecting to an external amp, otherwise you're amplifying everything generated from the mediocre built-in headphone amp in your card. Your sound card should have a line-out jack, use that, and let the external amp do its work. I don't know what sound level your card sends to the line-out jack. My M-Audio Audiophile card send 0dB to its line-out when I turn the volume control to maximum through software.

As regards to upgrading or tweaking the built-in headphone stage in your card, YMMV, I personally would spend my time and money on an external amp instead - if for nothing else it will enrich your experience in this hobby. I'm not discounting any tweaks you can do with your card; they can be beneficial like many have successfully done so.

[T.B.N.]

EDIT:

Is there a way to get line-out from an X-Fi Xtreme Music? Do you have to use the drivers?

[CyberTheo]

I've glanced the specs for your card. I don't see a line-out jack. Connecting from the phone jack can work, give it a try. Like another member had said, try replace the power caps on the board to improve the overall sound. May be the sound will be good enough after the mod until you have budget for a separate amp.

[T.B.N.]

Hmm, I think I'll go ahead and attempt the opamp/ cap mod for the X-Fi...
If I do get an amp in the future, I'll have to get a soundcard with a line-out anyway, so this seems more feasible for now (although a little scary, too)

[LeonvB]

I'd look at a DAC instead of yet another soundcard. But should you look at another soundcard, see if you can get one with 2xRCA instead of a 3.5mm jack. I have a strong feeling the lack of quality of the interconnect I used is a major contributor to the lack of detail when using the RPX-33.