Keep Audigy + Buy DAC/AMP, og just buy 0404?

[ThokN]

Hi!

After reading for many hours, I think I am finally understanding this DAC/AMP thing.. The thing is, I want to upgrade from just using my Audigy 2ZS, but there's just too many things to concider; so help is needed

Oh, before I begin, I use my Shure E4c at night, and KRK V6 Series2 monitors (active) the rest of the time. So I don't suppose that that's where I should upgrade..

1) Will the EMU 0404 USB blow my mind, compared to my Audigy 2ZS? (And would I need an additional Headphone AMP after the 0404 for that 'really' great sound?)

or

2) Would it be smarter to buy a dedicated DAC + dedicated AMP w/ both 1/4" TS output and headphone output (seperate controls)? The Audigy 2 can produce Bit-Perfect, so that would be perfect for an external DAC, as far as I understand. ...Is it even possible for a student like me with a budget of MAX $400?

3) Is there, at all, a DAC (Toslink input) with build in Headphone AMP and 1/4" TS outputs, that sounds good, in existence? I've searched, but didn't find one...


There are some conditions though... Besides listening to music, I also make music (electronic, so a lot of inputs are not needed), and I was thinking that a DAC or AMP might colour the sound of what I am making. This is not a good thing, as I want my monitors to sound 'flat' when producing...so:

4) ..is the 0404's 1/4" TS outputs coloured in any way, or are they just sounding 'clearer' than my Audigy 2ZS output?

5) I hear people talk about the fantastic 'warmth' after upgrading, but will I feel this, or will it just sound clearer? Cause I want to have the warm sound in my E4c's, but not in my speakers...if that is even possible...?

It seems like the EMU 0404 would fit me perfectly, but I'm a little skeptical about it's soundquality...(a bit because of it's plastic-looks, and a bit because of it's many functions...I like when a device is dedicated to only one funtion). Some people say it's great, others say it's 'okay', but I want my sound to be and I'm very excited to find out if this, for me, completely new DAC-stuff will make my ears smile as I hope it will.

I really hope you understand my questions, cause I'm a little confused myself. It's a bit complicated for me...

[DoomzDayz]

this is a lot of questions.. but questions are good!

1st of all, i don't think you will benefit all that much from a dedicated amp for shure e4c. other cans, yes. to benefit your speakers ( i am not famliar with speakers so i dont know how good they are ) i would do source if anything. since they are powered you can use line out to them.

1) depends on how experienced your ears are and how good what you are playing is. i havent heard audigy and am not sure how much better 0404 is - but again it is all about experience both with high end equipment, actual unamplified concerts, bad equipment, and most importantly noticing the differences like timing, smearing, tonality, speed, extension, etc. many people don't notice the difference or care about it very much.

the 0404 has a headphone out too, which isnt the greatest and i think is a little bassy although that may have to do with impedances and is thus can dependent.

2) it's up to your ears. what is it in your sound you want to improve exactly? decide that first. or i would go try out some good systems first and see if you want to spend money to improve.

personally i would just get a usb dac for bit-perfect and just bypass the audigy, like you were thinking with the 0404 - which is a really great value for the price and you wouldn't have much to gain from a dac with only toslink in this price range.

3) not sure, but usb can be bit perfect so theres the 0404. each component can color the sound slightly but i think the 0404 dac does very little, though the headphone out may. so if you go line-out you will be good.

4/5) depends on your audigy output, it could very well have too small of caps or an impedance that loses warmth in your speakers. e4cs are inherently warm.. your speakers may be inherently cold. do the manufacturers publish frequency response graphs?

i also like dedicated devices but the 0404's dac is pretty renowned and praised. i've never heard anyone refer to it as 'okay', perhaps those people were using the headphone out.

in summary, find out what you want to improve first by perhaps finding a local meet or go to a hi-fi headphone shop.

[Alydon]

^^^ Lotsa good advice from DD. ^^^

To it, I'll add:

1) IMO even unamped the 0404 is a significant improvement over the 2ZS for 2-channel audio. The 2ZS had "decent" sound when it came out, at least compared to onboard. I'm not familiar with you're KRK monitors, but you should notice a big jump in sound quality when listening to a 0404 through your Shure's. Dunno if it'd "blow your mind" though.

And you wouldn't need an amp to experience a sound quality increase from Audigy @ZS -> 0404, since IMO an unamped 0404 is still a big jump up from a 2ZS. It certainly wouldn't hurt tho.


2) None of the Audigy 2 cards can produce bit-perfect output. IIRC the DSP resamples all sounds internally to 48KHz (and not very well), and there's no way around it (that I know of). With that in mind, a USB solution (either the 0404 or other USB DAC) would probably be the best route to go with your budget, IMO.

3) A Used Meier Corda Aria (discontinued) or Cantate would fit your bill fairly well, though a Cantate might go ove ryour budget a bit. You'd need a 1/4" TRS -> dual-1/4" TS adapter to split the output into 2 mono channels, too. In fact, it looks like there's a Cantate in the FS forums going for about $450US right now....

4) I suppose technically all sound that goes through a DAC & OPAMPS will be "coloured" in some fashion. It's all a matter of if the "colouring" matches well with your system.

5) IME the headphones/speakers you use generally have more infuence on the warmth of the sound than the source. So if you're KRK's have a naturally cold sound they will probably stay fairly cold. The 0404 is a warmer card than the 2ZS, but I don't think it'd change the basic tonal characteristics of the KRK's too much. Having never heard the KRK's before though I could be wrong..

I also have never heard anyone say the 0404 had just "okay" sound, unless they were comparing it to spendy external DAC's or other high end sound cards (RME, Lynx, EMU 1212m, etc). As always, if you can find a way to audition one beforehand, do so. Otherwise buy it from a place that has a good return policy so you can send it back if its sound ultimately doesn't satisfy you....

[JamesL]

The way I see it, canal phones were designed to be used with portable media players. They may benefit from a higher end DAC and cleaner amplification, but they definitely don't need the kind of power that full-sized headphones do.
My vote is to go with something like the 0404 or Zero DAC/amp that has a very nice DAC section with built in amplification. This should be easy on your wallets, and your active monitors would also benefit better from one too.