DAC vs. SoundCard... what's the difference/what's better?

[EphemeralHope]

I'm pretty new and I'm curious what the difference is...

are they stackable? or mutually exclusive..?

I went to my school store today and asked if they had preamps and they told me that a preamp won't do anything for me without a good soundcard since it "amps the sound card" so if the source sucks then the preamp is useless...

however, the way I hear DAC being used in forums seems as if it's standalone?
So...I hope the knowledgable will give me a good explanation .

Also looking to buy one/both/whatever under 250. suggestions would be great, otherwise I only know about creative soundcards haha

[Currawong]

Well, anything that converts a digital signal to analogue is a DAC. People often refer to a sound card that plugs in via USB instead of inside your computer as an "external sound card". These have connections for mice and instruments and are used for amateur music making. Many companies make "audiophile" DACs, originally just the digital to analogue section of a CD player in a separate box. Since computers have become popular as a digital "transport" so have DACs as computer sound cards, until fairly recently, were very poor from an audiophile perspective.

[ROBSCIX]

This is not a easy question with one simple answer. There are many great soundcards and many great external units. The answer would depend on what you need for features, output options and your budget.

[EphemeralHope]

budget: under 250 - but anything under 350 is considered.

looking for a really budget dac or soundcard - I keep hearing a DAC is better because of distortion inside the computer.

but what I really don't get is - how does a DAC make music better if it's just converting? is a DAC ESSENTIALLY an external sound card? I'm really confused at all this still - do I need both or one? Does the DAC rely on the soundcard quality to work with(so if soundcard sucks there's only so much a DAC can do) or is DAC already stand alone ... just confused

I have another thread (I just bought bookshelf speakers) and the speakers don't sound amazing yet - and I definently think I'm in need of some upgrade source than my integrated. I just don't want to spend too much since the speakers themselves were only 400. I really want something that makes my speakers shine within my budget - whatever that takes!

[Shahrose]

Originally Posted by EphemeralHope

but what I really don't get is - how does a DAC make music better if it's just converting? is a DAC ESSENTIALLY an external sound card? I'm really confused at all this still - do I need both or one? Does the DAC rely on the soundcard quality to work with(so if soundcard sucks there's only so much a DAC can do) or is DAC already stand alone ... just confused

All sound cards have a DAC as well, that's what processes the digital signal from the computer into an analog signal that can be amplified. There is also an integrated mini amplifier on sound cards that accomplishes the latter task.

When people say "DAC" they're referring to an external box that's specialized only for the purpose of converting a digital signal to an analog one. You probably already know that a device specialized for one task will be better at it than a device that does multiple tasks such as a soundcard.

If you're using a computer and want to use an external DAC, you still need some way to transport the digital signal to the DAC for it to work. This is accomplished by a soundcard's digital output (many integrated motherboard soundcards have these as well, albeit of lower quality). In this case, the soundcard is acting as a transport and relegating all the D/A conversion to the external DAC by providing it the digital signal. This means, pretty much any decent quality soundcard will provide the same SQ as it's not doing anything but transporting the signal to the DAC.

Some external DACs also run off USB, which eliminates the need for a soundcard to act as a transport. Basically, this would simply require you to connect a USB cable from your computer to the DAC. This is the simplest option but also, usually, the lowest quality one. This is all IME and I may be generalizing (wrongly) here about USB vs optical/coaxial.

I've omitted some details and options for the sake of simplicity but this should give you a general idea. The answer to your question really is pretty simple.

[Ham Sandwich]

An advantage to buying an external DAC vs. a computer sound card is that the DAC won't be obsoleted as fast. Computer peripherals get obsoleted quickly. How many years will you get to use the sound card before it becomes useless because your next computer either doesn't have a compatible slot or you switch to a laptop? A traditional external DAC, even one that includes a USB input, will continue to be useful for years. It would be silly to spend several hundred on an internal sound card for a computer considering how fast it will be obsoleted. It's not as silly to spend that much or more on an external DAC that will have a longer useful lifetime and future resale.

[EphemeralHope]

this was roughly the picture I had in mind - thanks for clarifying it... but bottomline is the DAC only converts digital signal and without a good sound card... the digital input will be bad and therefore cannot produce a significant increase in sound... am I on the right track here?

the second response seems to be advocating external DAC - which i AGREE on, but wouldn't a soundcard be needed to compliment this?

Originally Posted by Shahrose

All sound cards have a DAC as well, that's what processes the digital signal from the computer into an analog signal that can be amplified. There is also an integrated mini amplifier on sound cards that accomplishes the latter task.

When people say "DAC" they're referring to an external box that's specialized only for the purpose of converting a digital signal to an analog one. You probably already know that a device specialized for one task will be better at it than a device that does multiple tasks such as a soundcard.

If you're using a computer and want to use an external DAC, you still need some way to transport the digital signal to the DAC for it to work. This is accomplished by a soundcard's digital output (many integrated motherboard soundcards have these as well, albeit of lower quality). In this case, the soundcard is acting as a transport and relegating all the D/A conversion to the external DAC by providing it the digital signal. This means, pretty much any decent quality soundcard will provide the same SQ as it's not doing anything but transporting the signal to the DAC.

Some external DACs also run off USB, which eliminates the need for a soundcard to act as a transport. Basically, this would simply require you to connect a USB cable from your computer to the DAC. This is the simplest option but also, usually, the lowest quality one. This is all IME and I may be generalizing (wrongly) here about USB vs optical/coaxial.

I've omitted some details and options for the sake of simplicity but this should give you a general idea. The answer to your question really is pretty simple.

[evu325]

You can use a DAC in place of a sound card. I hooked up a USB DAC and all of my sounds run out through that.

[Currawong]

You need some kind of digital output from your computer: USB or S/PDIF using a coaxial or optical cable. Many sound cards have these.

Originally Posted by EphemeralHope

but what I really don't get is - how does a DAC make music better if it's just converting? is a DAC ESSENTIALLY an external sound card? I'm really confused at all this still - do I need both or one? Does the DAC rely on the soundcard quality to work with(so if soundcard sucks there's only so much a DAC can do) or is DAC already stand alone ... just confused

A DAC doesn't "make the music better" but better DACs do a better job of re-constructing an analogue signal from the digital data and sending out a good analogue signal.

A standalone DAC has 4 main sections, more or less:

1. A power section (as do other audio components) that converts the incoming power to a suitable voltage. This is often in a wallwart. Some can use the power from a USB port instead. This also includes varying amounts of circuitry to remove fluctuations and filter out noise in the incoming power caused by interference and the like in household power lines or the noise that comes over USB from interference inside the computer. A high-end DAC costing thousands of dollars may be something like 70% power filtering circuitry alone. Noise and inconsistency in the power for each of the parts of a DAC will result in lower sound quality.

2. An input section that converts the signal from USB or S/PDIF into the kind of signal that the DA chip can read, which is different. Other things may go on here, which I wont get into (up-sampling, oversampling and filtering).

3. The DA converting stage.

4. An output stage, which is a mini amplifier, as the signals from a DA chip are very small. The signal must be strong enough to pass through interconnect cables to another device. The quality of the output stage often gives the DAC its "sound". You'll find quite a few threads where people talk about modding DACs or sound cards by changing the chips used in the output stage to improve the sound, as these chips come in different levels of quality and vary considerably in how they affect the sound.

I hope that gives you some idea of why you can buy a DAC or sound card for anywhere between $50 or $50000.

[leeperry]

DAC's have the major advantage of not suffering from EMI/RFI within the PC case....but they also require good jitter over the S/PDIF connection, so using an onboard soundcard to get out of the PC is not a good option.

plain USB is also very prone to jitter...luckily, some manufacturers make their own drivers to minimize this issue.

[Currawong]

Originally Posted by leeperry

DAC's have the major advantage of not suffering from EMI/RFI within the PC case....but they also require good jitter over the S/PDIF connection, so using an onboard soundcard to get out of the PC is not a good option.

plain USB is also very prone to jitter...luckily, some manufacturers make their own drivers to minimize this issue.

I think this only matters if you're spending many hundreds or more on a DAC. USB is fine if you just want a cheap DAC or combo amp/DAC IMO.