Benchmark DAC1 now available with USB

[EliasGwinn]

Hello Head-Fiers...

I'm sorry I haven't responded lately, but my email notification doesn't seem to be working ??

Anyway, I'll try to answer all of your questions as soon as possible.

Thanks!
Elias

[fradoca]

hi,
sorry for the question..maybe it's a stupid question.
I'd like to buy a dac 1 usb.I mainly work with wavelab and soudforge.
If i set Asio Kernel Streaming driver in wavelab to bypass kmixer and i have my
usb dac 1 connected to the pc will i be able to listen to the music/wav files
played in wavelab and soundforge??
Sorry if this has been already asked but this issue of kmixer and
usb devices is driving me mad!
thanks to everybody

cheers

Francesco

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by Wavelength

Elias,

Well first off you really don't need to fool with the Midi settings. It's best to leave these alone.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I'm assuming it has to do with AudioMIDI Setup. No, there are no MIDI settings that are applicable. With regards to the DAC1 USB, all applicable settings in AudioMIDI setup are under the 'Audio' tab.

Originally Posted by Wavelength

I have checked your DAC1 USB with all the settings and it does work fine on all the settings and from what I can tell on my Prism dScope III the use of Lepoard and iTunes 7.5 results in the best measurements....

...I would suggest users of 7.5 iTunes to upgrade to Lepoard for the best results.

Can you please elaborate? I'm very curious about Leopard. What did you test for? What were your results, specifically?

Originally Posted by Wavelength

One of the best ways to test your dac would be using the Faber Acoustics testing software. There you can make test tones very easily at any Fs rate.

You can also use MAX if you want to try different Fs rate music and more easily see problem areas.

Max from sbooth.org

We use Audio Precision for all waveform generation and testing. I'll look into these, however.

Originally Posted by Wavelength

I did send my DAC1 USB to Microsoft concerning the bit perfect and windows. There were able to make it bit perfect in Vista out of the box. They did have to set the device configuration for 24 option for it too be bit perfect with 16 bit data for some reason. There testing for XP was what I expected and they did say any PCM USB device would have issues with the KMIXER. Though not really a problem as there are ways around that. Though we have seen that several of the ASIO drivers seem to be corrupting data for some reason.

You sent a Benchmark DAC1 USB to Microsoft? They already have one...we gave them one during development so that we could simultaneously analyze the results as the firmware development progressed. However, before development began with the DAC1 USB, the engineers at Microsoft assured us that bit-transparency was, in fact, possible with XP at resolutions up to 192 kHz, 24-bit, through Kmixer. In fact, this was the basis for our quest to develop firmware that achieved bit-transparency at high-resolution through kmixer. If they had believed it was not possible, we would have never attempted it. But, alas, they said it was possible, and we have found it to be accurate. We also found similar problems with ASIO, as you mentioned.

Originally Posted by Wavelength

As a suggestion to users out there from my experience Vista may not be your cup of tea but in the audio area this is really were great strides have been made. If you have a dedicated computer I would upgrade to Vista for the best and easiest sonic value.

My Beta version of Vista had a weird behavioral quirk where it would sample-rate convert everything to the highest possible sample rate, even if the appropriate sample rate was selected. Microsoft engineers indicated that this was intentional (although I can't remember why...I'll have to go back and check my emails...) However, we haven't tested the official release of Vista yet, so I'll keep you posted as to what we find.

Thanks,
Elias

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by pwfletcher

I recently put together the following system and have a few technical questions re the Benchmark DAC1 USB:

System:
Mac Mini (running Leopard) as the source component
-> plugged in to a two week old Benchmark DAC1 via USB
-> plugged in to a Simaudio I-7 via Nordost Quattro Fil Balanced XLR
-> driving Dynaudio Confidence C1s via Nordost SPM Speaker Wire.

Also, my CDs have been ripped using Apple Lossless.

The system sounds amazing, but I want to use the DAC1 to its fullest potential (as any good equipment tweaking obsessed audiophile would). So my question is, will there be any sonic benefit if I set the XLR attenuator jumpers to -0db as opposed to the current setting of -20db or should I leave it alone?

Thanks :-)

pwfletcher,

We recently wrote about this in our newsletter, "Feedback". You can read it here:

Benchmark Media Systems -- Feedback Newsletter

The monthly "Feedback" newsletter contains two tech articles that answer common questions and concerns, or addresses critical issues with audio technology (there is no advertising-type garbage in the newsletter...it is purely informational). We will be sending the next edition of the newsletter very soon. You can sign up to receive the newsletter at the bottom-left of our homepage:

Benchmark Media Systems -- Precision Audio Elecronics

Thanks,
Elias

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by poo

So based on your findings, what is the latest version of iTunes should we be using?

Poo,

I can't answer that for sure. I can tell you that version 6.0 for Mac was not perfect (by a long shot), but it was at least capable of bit-transparent playback for 16-bit audio (as long as the sample-rate was set appropriately).

However, the current Mac/Tiger version (7.5) only seems to play 96/24 bit-transparently now. It is really quite odd.

However, we haven't completed testing yet. We will be updating our Audio Wiki as more information becomes available.

Does anyone know where old versions of iTunes can be found? I'd like to test different versions, but Mac only offers the latest.

Thanks,
Elias

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by gregeas

What about using XP with a program like J River Media Center, which permits ASIO output? This would still be bit perfect to the USB DAC1, correct?

I actually like Media Center much better than iTunes, so I'm using it in any case.

I have taken to using my laptop and DAC1 in my surround system, and the sound quality is outstanding with Media Center. If there are any bits being altered, I certainly can't hear the problem.

We haven't tested J River yet. However, an option for ASIO output will not necessarily cause bit-errors. In fact, it is usually the ASIO driver for an audio device that causes the errors, not the media player. I will try to test J River and let you know what I find.

Thanks,
Elias

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by sangel

Hello Elias,

Back again.....reinforced, offcourse..

I have just recieved my new DAC1 usb and I am ready to set it up.
But before doing so, I would be very grateful if you let me know the MAX usb cable length, for best results, between the PC's usb and the DAC1 usb input.
Note, my PC to DAC1 usb distance is about 5 meters.
Alternatively, do you suggest any of the market's usb - bridge type extension cables or usb - electroptical fiber type cables!!

Your input would be very much appreciated.

Best

sangel

Sangel,

5 meters is specified as the maximum USB cable length. However, we have not tested this, nor have we tested bridge extention cables or electrooptical fiber cables. If you try any of these, please let us know what you find! (It will either work or not work...and you'll know if it doesn't work because the DAC1 USB will indicate an error and no audio will come out).

Thanks,
Elias

[thomaspf]

Originally Posted by EliasGwinn

However, before development began with the DAC1 USB, the engineers at Microsoft assured us that bit-transparency was, in fact, possible with XP at resolutions up to 192 kHz, 24-bit, through Kmixer. In fact, this was the basis for our quest to develop firmware that achieved bit-transparency at high-resolution through kmixer. If they had believed it was not possible, we would have never attempted it. But, alas, they said it was possible, and we have found it to be accurate. We also found similar problems with ASIO, as you mentioned.

Now that I a bold statement I seriously doubt! Would you be in a positon to share the name of the person who told you that in a PM or is that a secret?

I'd just want to check whether that is an official Microsoft position ...

As I stated before in my tests the firmware in the DAC1 can't seem to impact how Windows works internally and therefore I can't seem to reproduce bit perfect playback other than using kernel streaming.

Cheers

Thomas

P.S.: Or just send me your phone number and we can chat a bit more about this

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by tuffgong

Some of the reviews mention you are always upgrading your pcb board layout. It appears from this thread that anything after may '04 has the same parts, but from what I understand the pcb layout is always being perfected, this being one of the places you engineers shine the most. ... I just purchased one that is being delivered next week, the previous owner said it was made two years ago. If at all possible, could you list serial number ranges for models made before the '04 change? Also, could you detail your changes made to the pcb layout, if they were significant, and what serial number ranges have which pcb layout?

Tuffgong,

All information pertaining to the evolution of the PCB can be found at the beginning of the manual for the DAC1.

Originally Posted by tuffgong

Besides the pcb info, i'd love to hear Elias' thoughts on upgrading everything outside the dac-1, does a power conditioner help? Silver Signiature blahblah IEC cord help? Putting a weight with sorbathane feet on top of the unit help? Is this all mental masturbation? I plan on buying some PMC AML-1's (active monitors) for the benchmark to run into for the purest, more revealing sound possible. If that's what they used to master it with (probably a benchmark as well), why try to improve it. I noticed Rick Rubin uses the benchmark and Stevie Wonder likes the aml's, so i'm going that direction and retiring from the upgrade game. Anyone want some platinum audio duo's and solo's for sale? Selling my amp next...
Thank you Benchmark.
I love the review on audioreview of the benchmark that says you should have made this unit twice as big and twice as heavy and called it the merlot signiature dac and charged 3 times as much, so funny.

Well, the short answer to this is that I think you are going in the right directly with professional equipment. It will usually provide the most accurate representation of the audio, as that is the name of the game in pro audio.

As for the fancy power cables, it may make a difference with some products but it will not affect the power that the components in the DAC1 receive. In other words, it won't make a difference with our products. I definitely discourage power conditioners. Not only will they not help, but will often hinder the delivery of power. As for the feet you mentioned, no comment.

As for your post-script, it is often a marketing strategy for some companies to boost the price of their products to imply superiority. The kicker is that it often works. People often assume quality comes with cost...because it makes sense. What they don't realize is that it is easy to increase the price, but it is not easy to increase quality. That is why you should know who is designing the circuits, not the advertisements.

The DAC1 will stand up to most any D/A, spec for spec. I say "most" because there are hundreds of DAC's I've never tested. However, we have tested 5-digit DAC's that could not hang with the DAC1. The DAC1 achieves near the current theoretical limits of performance even in the most adverse of conditions - and that is what sets us apart.

Benchmark products are always priced based on two factors: the amount of development time and the cost of the components. We will not inflate our prices as a marketing device.

Thanks,
Elias

[EliasGwinn]

Originally Posted by Telynau

Per Elias's suggestion, I downloaded VLC. Bottom line, if you want to play your albums off a hard drive (which is all I ever do), it works.

On one of my systems I use a Mac PowerBook Pismo (500MHz, 512MB). It won't run Leopard, so Gordon Rankin's upgrade suggestion doesn't help (I will try the Leopard upgrade on my MacBook after Leopard settles down some more).

VLC is noticeably more clear to my ears than iTunes 7.5.

Two quirks of VLC really stumped me, so I will repeat the resolutions here for those who might want to try it on their Mac's.

First, in the Benchmark Wiki Elias says to keep the VLC volume control at 100%. OK, that is the consistent advice we hear (e.g, from Gordon, too). The quirk is that in VLC, under "VLC -- Preferences -- Audio" you will see that the volume can be set anywhere from zero to 1024. This volume control should be set at 256 because 256 = 100% or "0 db". If you set it higher you will probably add distortion because you are amplifying the signal. I made the mistake of setting it at 1024 (thinking that was 100%) and spent several hours figuring out why at that level the music was clearly distorted on my system.

The slide volume controller on the little VLC menu that pops up when you start VLC is a different matter entirely. It varies the volume level you have set in VLC Preferences. So after you set the Preferences -- Audio level to 256, you want to set the slider on the little menu all the way to the right, which gives you the full 256.

With these settings in place you will then use your preamp or other volume control to actually control the volume of the music.

Second, I suspect the computer guys would have gotten this in about 10 seconds, but if you select "mute" from the Audio pull down menu (or otherwise find that you have muted the sound somehow -- which I did several times) in order to unmute you just right click on the "mute" selection. Left click puts mute on; right click unmutes.

The big downside to VLC is that the documentation is very, very sparse. But I got it up and running -- and it is a solution to play Apple lossless files clearly, with low or no distortion, on a Mac that can't be upgraded to Leopard. If all you want to do is play your albums (and probably a lot more if you can figure out how to use the more advanced functions), it will do the job.

Thanks for the tip, Elias! Regards, James

Thank you for this valuable input, James!!

I will investigate this and add it to our wiki (I'll give you a nod, as well, if you don't mind!!)

Thanks,
Elias